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Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

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Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#41

Post by bradwood »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #40
nikeee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they handle the additional e-waste?

Additional in relation to what? Legacy systems need hardware and electricity too, people tend to forget this. I'd like to see the math on how much additional hardware is needed, if at all. My suspicion is that there's a lot of redundancy in the current infrastructure because each bank has to maintain their own record, given that they can't trust each other. A trustless and decentralized system, if it became the base…

Indeed. Trading floors. ATM networks. Primary and secondary data centres. Sky scapers in the financial district. Etc etc.

That shit all needs power too. For as long as that shit is actually needed.

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#42

Post by bradwood »

Deritiod wrote: post #27
sMarsIntruder wrote: post #25

Bitcoin is here to stay since it is the only real decentralised system. I know that you guys will say now “bitcoin maximalist”, but hey, ETH is becoming a centralised shitcoin. Just get over it. One last thing: PoS will NEVER be as much as good as PoW. So please document yourself a little bit more regarding energy consumption and what Bitcoin CAN help solving. Nothing is black or white.

Bitcoin is not solving anything really. People think that PoW just solved the trust issue but it has not. On one side Bitcoin still depends on miners and big countries like china could have a significant motivation to do a 51% attack in 20 years. People could form a secret org and take over Bitcoin. Bitcoin would require a lot more independent people to mine which people actually don't care for. And on the other hand…

> Our current fiat system is not perfect but by far the most stable system we have.

ROTFL. Have you taken a look at inflation lately? Are you aware that the number of US dollars in existence has gone up by at least 40% since the start of COVID?

Not sure how anyone could call this "stable"

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#43

Post by Deritiod »

bradwood wrote: post #42
Deritiod wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not solving anything really. People think that PoW just solved the trust issue but it has not. On one side Bitcoin still depends on miners and big countries like china could have a significant motivation to do a 51% attack in 20 years. People could form a secret org and take over Bitcoin. Bitcoin would require a lot more independent people to mine which people actually don't care for. And on the other hand…

> Our current fiat system is not perfect but by far the most stable system we have. ROTFL. Have you taken a look at inflation lately? Are you aware that the number of US dollars in existence has gone up by at least 40% since the start of COVID? Not sure how anyone could call this "stable"

1. Money isn't just created.

2. Bitcoin is not inflation save either.

And much more volatile.

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#44

Post by Deritiod »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #40
nikeee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they handle the additional e-waste?

Additional in relation to what? Legacy systems need hardware and electricity too, people tend to forget this. I'd like to see the math on how much additional hardware is needed, if at all. My suspicion is that there's a lot of redundancy in the current infrastructure because each bank has to maintain their own record, given that they can't trust each other. A trustless and decentralized system, if it became the base…

And? Bitcoin is already consuming tons of energy while not being anywhere close to what our current system is doing

And not only in context of storing and sending money around.

There is still no fraud detection or account recovery or any other protection in place.

And all that while Bitcoin has not even a strategy on how you would be able to onboard everyone on the Blockchain fair and square. Everyone joining Bitcoin after someone else has less value.

No one will be dumb enough to start trading their fiat with crypto in the long run.

And clearly you don't know how banking works with your suspicion.

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#45

Post by sMarsIntruder »

Deritiod wrote: post #35
sMarsIntruder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PoS is just the foundation of a new oligarch system just like the current FIAT system, giving more to who already owns.. lot. This is what you’re advertising. And I like to think that you’re doing it in good faith. And btw what you’re saying regarding mining is factually wrong https://endthefud.org/

Another person already shared that link collection and it's just utterly garbage. Pls see my other answer regarding that page. Btw. I actually read now even more articles from that page than before and they all ignore fundamental issues. To you: did you actually read them? And no I'm not advocating for a new PoS system. I advocate for our current existing PoS system. That system we currently have. The system which wo…

Man, I understand your point. For real. But the 51% attack I cannot say it’s impossible, but very close to it. You cannot attack the chain by just conquering the mining power. This is something very basic on how btc works. But you know, anyway..

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#46

Post by Deritiod »

sMarsIntruder wrote: post #45
Deritiod wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another person already shared that link collection and it's just utterly garbage. Pls see my other answer regarding that page. Btw. I actually read now even more articles from that page than before and they all ignore fundamental issues. To you: did you actually read them? And no I'm not advocating for a new PoS system. I advocate for our current existing PoS system. That system we currently have. The system which wo…

Man, I understand your point. For real. But the 51% attack I cannot say it’s impossible, but very close to it. You cannot attack the chain by just conquering the mining power. This is something very basic on how btc works. But you know, anyway..

The 51% problem was quite real a few years back due to the underlying motivation to be part of a mining pool.

And it's not too far fetched that china might control a big mining pool if BTC would take off.

And yes decentralization doesn't just fix the issue of regimes like china.

It is more controllable than you would like to make it out.

Especially with the great firewall.

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#48

Post by npc12345 »

Deritiod wrote: post #33
npc12345 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.endthefud.org

Have you read any of it and actually understood it? I read now 8 articles and all of them are really bad :-/ I really don't have the motivation to go through all of that Garbage... One dude compares the Bitcoin energy consumption with aluminum while ignoring that aluminum is actually helpful to smelt while Bitcoin is not. There is so much ignorance in all of them. 'But how much energy should a monetary system consume…

0. A dollar your ancestors earned in 1919 buys about a 1/100 right now of what it used to.

1. A dollar you earned in 2019 buys about a quarter right now of what it used to.

2. A bitcoin you bought in 2019 buys about 5 times right now of what it used to.

3. A bitcoin bought in 2135 will buy around the same in 2135, that it will buy in 2235.

...and 2335

...and 2435.

You don't seem to care about [0] and [1]? I DEEPLY care about that.

[2] is noise, just like a dollar in 2019 buys more than a dollar in 2002, who cares, it's not whole picture, and you'd be wrong calling the USD a ponzi by looking at that particular timeframe

[3] is the whole point of Bitcoin.

If you don't care about [3], then more power to you, keep working for the politicians, as for me, I want to work for my family and children, and my grandchildren.

If you don't /get/ [3], then I don't know what to say.

Everything else, every single other talking point is noise, [3] is where it's at.

Even [3] is ultimately noise, and all of this discussion about Bitcoin is noise because...

...you cannot ban Bitcoin, so why go against it?

Acccept it.

Embrace it.

Adapt.

Overcome.

Start doing at least some of those steps because bro, you cannot ban it, as simple as that.

Bitcoin is here to stay.

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#49

Post by bradwood »

Deritiod wrote: post #43
bradwood wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our current fiat system is not perfect but by far the most stable system we have. ROTFL. Have you taken a look at inflation lately? Are you aware that the number of US dollars in existence has gone up by at least 40% since the start of COVID? Not sure how anyone could call this "stable"

1. Money isn't just created. 2. Bitcoin is not inflation save either. And much more volatile.

> 1. Money isn't just created.

Er.. It is.

Between quantitative easing and fractional reserve banking it is created in 2 ways.

Spend some time reading and researching on these topics please

Re: Ask HN: Could Bitcoin be replaced by an ERC-20 token?

#50

Post by Deritiod »

bradwood wrote: post #49
Deritiod wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Money isn't just created. 2. Bitcoin is not inflation save either. And much more volatile.

> 1. Money isn't just created. Er.. It is. Between quantitative easing and fractional reserve banking it is created in 2 ways. Spend some time reading and researching on these topics please

I did and still think your sentiment simplifies it too much .

The banking crisis was the last big thing which imploded but otherwise we do create eqvilent new wealth with it. Real one

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