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I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

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Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#141

Post by manmal »

khazhoux wrote: post #64
manmal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you‘d be great at guitar, and love playing it, if your parents had forced you to take lessons?

Absolutely. I still played at home, just without a teacher. I improved a tiny amount with all bad technique. This was the down side of lenient parents who never forced us to do things we didn’t like, and let us quit even things that were good for us.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

I started practicing electric guitar at the ripe age of 20 (with a teacher I met at compulsory army service), and after 6 years of that, played in a band for five years (including a gig in front of four thousand people). My parents only ever once saw me play live - and I think that actually helped, because I never felt forced to practice (as was the case with the piano).

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#142

Post by silisili »

spoiler wrote: post #135
silisili wrote: post #119

I feel really conflicted on this one. On the surface, he's right, let kids be kids. But parents almost always overstep their bounds to do what they think is best for their child. We've all heard of Tiger Moms, and parents basically forcing their kids into being a doctor for their own good. When it fails, it fails spectacularly, but it often doesn't fail. Is it wrong that a child was forced into something that gave th…

> Is it wrong that a child was forced into something that gave them a great life? There's a difference between encouragement and support and forcing. Forcing is never good or healthy. It's always abuse, no matter the mental gymnastics involved we use self-rationalise traumatic childhoods. It's no different from me forcong you right now to do something. Parents don't own their children. They can buy a doll if they wan…

It's a really hard line to draw. When you realize mistakes you made as a kid and young adult, the pain or disadvantages it caused...and you love a little creature so much you never want them to experience that, it's easy to overstep bounds.

Not that that's here nor there if the framing of the story is true. But we all know there are three sides to every story.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#143

Post by harel »

nicolas_t wrote: post #85
irjustin wrote: post #8

Wow Will was such a part of my childhood watching Star Trek. Obviously, he didn't appear often but he was memorable simply because there were so few people as young as him on the show. Sad to hear this all around. This also brought back memories of me being required to play piano growing up. I hated piano, performing (recitals), playing in general. I was terrrribbleee (still am) and was put up in lessons for 12 years…

That's something me and my wife struggle with now that we have a child. We both wish we had been pushed more when it comes to music lessons. So, we think we will try to get him to learn piano or an other instrument (except violin). However, we will most likely put a time limit, if after 3 years he still doesn't really like it, he can give it up. The idea, is that I think that for certain things like music, it only re…

Nudge is better than "push".

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#144

Post by dale_glass »

shkkmo wrote: post #43
jazzythom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t consent to anything by your logic we should cut a hole in a cardboard box and put them in it until they’re 18. You have to be practical, that opportunity could generate millions for his future and build a career. I mean you can’t punish them for being unable to see the future. Judge them from the information available at the junction.

> You have to be practical, that opportunity could generate millions for his future and build a career. Or they can be scared for life and have never get any of that money, as in this instance. We don't force or even allow children to work in any other industry. It is ridiculous and offensive to say that calling for the end of the exception for child actors is somehow equivalent to saying "we should cut a hole in a c…

Most jobs require a huge time investment and a reliable schedule.

At least theoretically, you could accommodate children by only giving them small roles that require very infrequent time investment on their part, and a bunch of people keeping an eye on everything going on.

The question is whether such a thing can be worked out at all, or whether it's safer just to jinx the entire idea, reasoning that there will be too much rule breaking despite good intentions.

It's definitely going to depend on the country and legal system -- it seems in Russia there's a fair amount of series with child actors in them, and I wonder how well they're treated, because a long running series is definitely going to be very demanding even on adults.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#145

Post by bobthepanda »

ludston wrote: post #140
bobthepanda wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also, I feel like piano and violin are the very classic choices for parents picking out music education for their kids, when there is so much more than that to the world of music. I absolutely hated every single moment of piano and never really got good at it. It was a different story once I got selected for a chorus in school.

It's quite possible that the musical skills you picked up from your piano lessons are reason why you had the "talent" to picked for your schools chorus.

Personally, I doubt it.

My main struggles with piano were chords, and sightreading. Chords aren't really relevant in vocals since a single person can only sing a single note at any given time, and I wasn't great at sightreading then either. And I find breath control a lot easier than trying to anticipate where my hands need to go (as someone with small hands, a lot of pieces were quite difficult)

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#146

Post by badpun »

strken wrote: post #116
benkwokcy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to catch up. It doesn't matter how good you are, only if you are enjoying it.

This is true in a sense, but the motivation a hobby gives you can depend on your performance. It often feels like there's a skill level where you hit critical mass and feel more rewarded than frustrated. Kids learn fast and are less afraid to fail, so they can start new things more easily.

> This is true in a sense, but the motivation a hobby gives you can depend on your performance. It often feels like there's a skill level where you hit critical mass and feel more rewarded than frustrated.

That also depends on your mindset and expectations. I've read a journal of master painter who, after roughly 40 years of doing art, still often felt frustrated and defeated after spending a day at the easel (even though 99% of people who paint would kill to be able to produce a painting he worked on).

Also, Polish poet Barańczak once said: "you know what they call a guy who enjoys writing? A hack".

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#147

Post by anonymous_sorry »

nlnn wrote: post #26
irjustin wrote: post #8

Wow Will was such a part of my childhood watching Star Trek. Obviously, he didn't appear often but he was memorable simply because there were so few people as young as him on the show. Sad to hear this all around. This also brought back memories of me being required to play piano growing up. I hated piano, performing (recitals), playing in general. I was terrrribbleee (still am) and was put up in lessons for 12 years…

It's a tough one. If you discover a passion for something as an adult, you'll often wish your parents had pushed you into it as a kid. I feel this way about music, zero education as a kid, started late as an adult, but feel I'll never catch up. Though there's no way of knowing whether I'd have felt the same as a kid, or pushed back against it at the time.

I had piano and clarinet lessons as a kid, and kept them up into my teens. I rarely practiced except when I was forced to, and I wasn't very good at practising when I did. I don't consider this abuse by the way, I was "forced" to go to school lessons too (not that I'm questioning Wil Wheaton's experience, which sounds quite different). Ultimately I found the repetition required in practising extremely boring, and I didn't have enough inner drive to get better. There's probably (a lack of) natural aptitude involved too, although this is hard to disentangle from motivation - a negative feedback loop maybe.

When I hear an good musician now, I inevitably wish I'd tried harder and could do what they do. If I hadn't had lessons, perhaps I'd blame my folks for the fact that I can't play jazz. But I was given every opportunity, had lessons for years, and didn't prioritise it. I just accept that it wasn't for me.

My parents also encouraged me to join a choir, and whilst I tended to daydream in choir practice, I kept that up into adulthood and it's had a major impact on my life.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#148

Post by em-bee »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #125
em-bee wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the sad part is that he hasn't found what he needs to forgive his parents. he is still hurting. and he is still searching. i disagree that he would not be as well known now if it wasn't for his parents. are you trying to suggest that he should be thankful for that? most child actors disappear into obscurity when they grow up. will managed to find his way, and that's entirely his own achivement. of course without his…

> the sad part is that he hasn't found what he needs to forgive his parents. Where do you draw the line beyond which you cannot forgive someone?

there is no line, that's up to everyone for themselves. if you can't find what you need to forgive then that is sad for you because you still feel pain and you haven't found a way to make the pain go away. and i feel for you and i wish i could help you.

i am not trying to suggest that you need to forgive in order to feel better. i don't think it works that way. but rather, you need to feel better before you can forgive. i am not feeling sad that you haven't forgiven, but i am feeling sad because you are still hurting.

some may not find what they need to be able to forgive, and some pain will not go away, and it's sad that they will have to keep living with that.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#149

Post by badpun »

nurettin wrote: post #77
irjustin wrote: post #8

Wow Will was such a part of my childhood watching Star Trek. Obviously, he didn't appear often but he was memorable simply because there were so few people as young as him on the show. Sad to hear this all around. This also brought back memories of me being required to play piano growing up. I hated piano, performing (recitals), playing in general. I was terrrribbleee (still am) and was put up in lessons for 12 years…

I wish I was pushed as a child to play the piano. And I did it for my child. He endured it for a year. He's talented and he's at the beginner's level, but when we observed closely, he didn't want to practise. He only did it when we threatened him with stopping the lessons. So we just let it go. Now we have a piano at the house. He sometimes plays whatever he likes. Maybe he will pick it up later in his life. Maybe I…

I've noticed a pattern among the childhood stories of young musicians (and artists in general). They either found the instrument fascinating on its own and were just enjoying toying with it [1] or were surrounded by people (parents, family) who enojoy playing music, and that enjoyment infected them.

On the other hand, the people I know who were forced by parents to practice piano for years have not touched it ever in their adult life. They treated it as just another chore, such as say biology class at school - something they have to do, but have no interest in and will drop from their mind as soon as they don't have to do it any more.

[1] A common subscenario here is some kind of dysfunction (prolonged illness, dysfunctional family, not fitting with other children for some reason) which pushed the kid into a lonely parallel universe of just sitting on their own and praticing their art for years.

Re: I was forced to be a child star. It was never my dream or my idea

#150

Post by nasmorn »

obiefernandez wrote: post #14
manmal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification: I‘m talking about self-actualization & leisure time here, not chores. > What is a healthy amount of pushing vs too much? There is no healthy amount of pushing, period. If you stop applying pressure, children will find their own thing, and that’s the best outcome for them. Just make sure they know the possibilities of what they could do. What would you have liked to do instead of learning piano? Did you…

I wish my parents had pushed me to practice piano. They subjected me to lessons for almost 2 years, and I didn't mind (although the 30 minute drive each way to the teacher's house sucked.) However, between lessons instead of practicing I would just fck off and improvise and try to teach myself popular songs instead of actually practicing, and I'm not talking about hours each day either, maybe more like a few minutes.…

Our daughters both play instruments and they only get to choose each semester how much teaching they want to do or if they want to play in orchestras or ensembles. But once they choose so they cannot stop practicing for their ensemble concert. Interestingly while there is a lot of friction involved to get them to practice at times they are always very proud and happy for their performance and want to do it again. The most draconian measure we apply is not letting them use electronic media.
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