Jeff Atwood On Parenthood • Hacker News Board

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#101

Post by crag » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 5:46 PM UTC

jm4 wrote: post #66

aidos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I became a father 2 weeks ago and that's the thing that's struck me most. We're only 2 weeks into it and we are giving everything we have night and day to look after our daughter. I don't recall ever hearing my parents using it against me or even mentioning it. You suddenly realize that ever parent has just taken it on the chin and selflessly put themselves second to their children. As a father I completely understan…

For me, the first 6-8 weeks were the most difficult. It starts getting easier and you start getting better at it. Hang in there. Your parents didn't mention it because they probably forgot how difficult that part was. It passes quickly-- even though it may not seem like it at the time-- and is mostly a blur when you look back. Take lots of pictures. Think about keeping a journal.

When they turn 13 you'll miss the "baby days". You'll look on those days fondly, forgetting the stress, lack of sleep, etc. etc.

And when your son turns 18 and joins the Army. You'll wonder "where'd it all go".

It all goes by in a blink. Enjoy the moments you have now. You'll miss then soon enough.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#102

Post by TamDenholm » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:03 PM UTC

I'm not a parent and don't ever plan to be (not all plans go that way, so my feelings might change on the matter) but I dont really get the whole parenting/having kids thing. I really have no affection for children at all, I dont find babies cute, i dont think kids are darling and i honestly think i'd make an absolutely terrible father because i just dont think im wired that way.

When Jeff talks about the 51% to the 49%, my personal opinion is why even bother devoting 18+ years of effort for a measly 2% payoff? Because, if it WAS worth it, wouldnt it be more than 2%?

I know this is perhaps a controversial opinion but please keep in mind I dont advocate my own views for anyone else. I have friends who i wholeheartedly believe weren't complete until they had kids, they're great parents and its what makes them whole and i think thats brilliant. But kids are like bungee jumping or religion, great for other people, but certainly not for me.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#103

Post by watmough » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:10 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #99

bambax wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for commenting, because I can't understand the downvotes. I still don't see where I "publicly talk about my own family" in a "disgusting" way, but if that's how my comment comes across, it sure looks bad. For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds).…

I'm not a psychologist and I really, really hate what I'm about to do, but I'm going to do it anyway because I believe it may possibly help you. Feel free to take it or leave it, it's just a voice on the internet after all. First, I find it annoying that you're being downvoted here. You're being honest and sincere and that should be commended even if I don't agree with you. To the point however: From reading your com…

Yes, I completely agree. If you have anything other than complete unconditional love for a child under about 10, then it seems possible there's something very very wrong.

Its almost like he's talking about someone else's kids that he's baby sitting.

Small children are a blank canvas. Good and bad. Mine is sitting down quietly paging through a book whilst I tap this in on the iPad. Moments ago, she was blundering about with a blanket over her head. A day ago, she was tired, and apparently determined to crack her head open by falling onto a metal bed frame.

It's life, the most precious thing in the world. Love it while you can.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#104

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:19 PM UTC

pcote wrote: post #78

"As an adult, you may think you've roughly mapped the continent of love and relationships. You've loved your parents, a few of your friends, eventually a significant other. You have some tentative cartography to work with from your explorations. You form ideas about what love is, its borders and boundaries. Then you have a child, look up to the sky, and suddenly understand that those bright dots in the sky are whole…

I think he's pretty well stating it, and I think he's pretty well right. (I'd have also agreed with your point-of-view 3 years ago before my first was born.) It's not worth much arguing about, because as a non-parent you'll have other compensating "benefits", but it's hard for me to imagine how much my own world view and views on selfless love changed with the birth of my first (and to a lesser extent, my second).

FTR, I didn't downvote.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#105

Post by pyre » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:24 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #86

bad_user wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kid is a little sensitive. He was born prematurely and he also inherited a little allergic material from me. A month ago he had a very mild version of Lyell syndrome, most probably as an allergic reaction to an infection with staphylococcus aureus. He's over it, he's doing great in general, he looks his age both physically and mentally and to us he's the best kid in the world (and I'm sure we aren't exaggerating m…

I can't imagine how I would even handle that much stress and pressure. I meant my comment to be more along the lines -- 'if you think crying and diaper changing is difficult, wait till you have to start worrying about them crashing your car, getting a call from the police when they are out with friends at night, or getting someone pregnant'.

I'd be less worried about your son getting someone pregnant, than your daughter getting pregnant. I would think that it would be easier to force your son to be responsible for the child that he's fathered, than to be the girl's parents trying to force someone else's son to be responsible for the child he's fathered (especially if his parents are resistant or apathetic to the whole thing).

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#106

Post by mikeash » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:36 PM UTC

watmough wrote: post #103

run4yourlives wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a psychologist and I really, really hate what I'm about to do, but I'm going to do it anyway because I believe it may possibly help you. Feel free to take it or leave it, it's just a voice on the internet after all. First, I find it annoying that you're being downvoted here. You're being honest and sincere and that should be commended even if I don't agree with you. To the point however: From reading your com…

Yes, I completely agree. If you have anything other than complete unconditional love for a child under about 10, then it seems possible there's something very very wrong. Its almost like he's talking about someone else's kids that he's baby sitting. Small children are a blank canvas. Good and bad. Mine is sitting down quietly paging through a book whilst I tap this in on the iPad. Moments ago, she was blundering abou…

This really bugs me. Why can't we have a normal range of emotions here? Yes, we are predisposed to enormously love our children. But it's just a massive bias, not an absolute requirement.

Acting like anything short of complete and unconditional love with absolutely no complaints or downside somehow means that there's something wrong with a person just suppresses completely legitimate feelings and makes it difficult for people to figure out how to deal with the inevitable problems and bad parts that will occur.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#107

Post by a5seo » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:40 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #102

I'm not a parent and don't ever plan to be (not all plans go that way, so my feelings might change on the matter) but I dont really get the whole parenting/having kids thing. I really have no affection for children at all, I dont find babies cute, i dont think kids are darling and i honestly think i'd make an absolutely terrible father because i just dont think im wired that way. When Jeff talks about the 51% to the…

Definitely think it's good to get yourself clear on this so you can be as upfront as possible with potential partners.

Kids are one area where you do have to go all-in... The last thing the world needs is kids who are screwed up because their parents "sorta" wanted kids (the way I sorta want an rc helicopter) and discover their personal pain/gain is over 1.0, and check out and let the tv raise them.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#108

Post by mcrittenden » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:42 PM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #96

bambax wrote: post #8

> 49% incredible pain in the ass, 51% most sublime joy you've ever felt; that one percent makes all the difference. Between 49 and 51 I count a difference of two percents? > Turns out, we're having two babies, due in mid-February 2012. Aha. Let's talk again in a year or two, see who you'd throw under a bus. I have three of those myself. I don't really subscribe to this whole "kids are wonderful" cliché. The first kid…

Wow, I can honestly say that as a father I cannot relate to you at all. I've got two boys, 4 and 2. As you said the first one is pretty good, but the second one is a terror. If I lose it on him and yell with all my might at his misdeeds he will just sit there and laugh - he thinks it's funny. He can be - and is - exhausting to just be around, let alone parent. But I love him to death. He's a reflection of certain sid…

> how they handle stress, their gut reactions, their deepest feelings, their expression of opinion - all very similar to the parent.

Do you really think that this is true often enough to present it as a blanket rule like that? It seems like a fantastic oversimplification to me.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#109

Post by mcrittenden » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 6:52 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #102

I'm not a parent and don't ever plan to be (not all plans go that way, so my feelings might change on the matter) but I dont really get the whole parenting/having kids thing. I really have no affection for children at all, I dont find babies cute, i dont think kids are darling and i honestly think i'd make an absolutely terrible father because i just dont think im wired that way. When Jeff talks about the 51% to the…

> I really have no affection for children at all, I dont find babies cute, i dont think kids are darling

Have you spent much time around them? I have a 16 month old, and before he was born, I felt exactly the same as you. In fact, I went out of my way to avoid having to interact with children of most any age. Once I spent some time around my son, I began to find other babies cute and fun and now I really enjoy hanging out with kids (well, most of them). Maybe it's an acquired taste?

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#110

Post by johnnyn » Mon, Oct 24, 2011, 7:03 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #102

I'm not a parent and don't ever plan to be (not all plans go that way, so my feelings might change on the matter) but I dont really get the whole parenting/having kids thing. I really have no affection for children at all, I dont find babies cute, i dont think kids are darling and i honestly think i'd make an absolutely terrible father because i just dont think im wired that way. When Jeff talks about the 51% to the…

That's okay Tam. Like you said, parenthood is not for everyone and I agree with that. And yes, Jeff's chart would imply only a 2% difference. But that 2% doesn't include the child's happiness and well being. When you have a child, you are doing it for you, but more importantly, you are doing it for them. You are giving them the greatest gift -- life. Almost everyone -- children of flawed parents included -- is glad to be alive.