Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to hire an idiot

nukemanbill.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 186 posts

Re: How to hire an idiot

#161

Post by tptacek »

bane wrote: post #156
tptacek wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally familiar with the hiring processes at most of the big "mega corps" in the software industry (ie, places where software is the company's key profit center and not a cost center). So, because lots of people are reading this thread, let me clear this up right now: You do not need an "Education" section on your resume to get a job interview at any software company in the valley you'd ever want to work at.…

Again, disagree and wasn't aware we were restricting ourselves to only the Valley. Yes, you need an education section on your resume. Only apply to companies that you wish to work for. Some will care about it, others won't. Those that don't care won't look at it, those that do will be glad you put it on. It's a Pascal's wager of sorts. If you are applying to work at Matasano, by all means, delete it from your resume.…

You are probably dead on in terms of what it takes to get a programming job at a giant defense contractor (those F500's being Lockheed, ITT, and shudder SAIC).

Let me just say, because this is a neutral comment: look, you have nothing to lose by putting "Education" on your resume. It's not like I'm not going to take you seriously because you stuck your CMU GPA on your resume. So if you're worried about getting past every possible hiring manager, you should include it.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#162

Post by AppSec »

iand wrote: post #11
ww520 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does reference checking really work? People pick references that can put them in the best light. How would one phrase questions to get the true answers from references?

They do work but are not foolproof. I always ask to speak with the person's current manager. Its usually possible to discerne whether the manager is sorry to lose the employee or not.

Even though I never give references until an offer has been agreed to, I generally will not give my current manager for various reasons -- first it is just way too awkward.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#163

Post by evan_ »

rcthompson wrote: post #45
3pt14159 wrote: post #40

Dude was a psychopath. I've been tricked by them before, cost me at least $20k. They lie. Straight to your face. They are often terrible at spelling, grammar, and just general "this document should look right" skills.

Does that mean he was also faking his regret when he finally got "caught" so he could get off scot-free?

Of course he was.

The whole story about how he was into drugs and crime and turned his life around and worked his way up from the bottom, maybe that happened and maybe it didn't- but the story about how he's just a simple mook from Circumstances was calculated to gain sympathy and shift the blame away from himself.

>Well, at least he was honest. He wasn't trying to deceive me, and he really thought he could do it, he explained. No hard feelings.

And it worked!

Re: How to hire an idiot

#164

Post by irahul »

bane wrote: post #152
tptacek wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things. First, I wish you'd stop caricaturing everyone hired through a process other than yours as "lone swashbuckling MacGuyvers" or whatnot. I am not laying out a method for hiring "the next legend". Second, it is incumbent on you to get better and more efficient at hiring people, and if you're stuck with "resume, phone screen, all-day interview", you've got your hands tied behind your back. There are so many w…

Well, not that I was talking to you (I was talking to cookiecaper) But I appreciate the interest even if your reply is a little bit of a response to something I didn't say. Near as I can tell your process appears to be first come first serve. By your own statements, you don't look at resumes, and you apparently don't ask any particular questions about work history or education during your interview process. I'm guess…

> By your own statements, you don't look at resumes, and you apparently don't ask any particular questions about work history or education during your interview process.

This thread is already a bit too long, and I haven't read through tptacek's link about his hiring process, but:

1. you don't look at resumes,

If I am hiring for a ruby on rails position specifically, the only thing I need to check is if you know ruby on rails. I know RoR, I know my requirements, I can evaluate if you are suited to this current role.

If I am hiring for RoR, but I am looking for a generalist - someone who might not know RoR but can pick it up on the run, then looking up at the resume for RoR isn't required. I will just talk general algorithms, design problems, code snippets.

2. and you apparently don't ask any particular questions about work history or education during your interview

Me: Let's say we need to have a threaded discussion forum. You know, like HN. Where replies can have replies.

Joe: Yes, I got that.

Me: Let's see how you go about deciding upon the models for that. I need upvote/downvote/recall vote on all posts. Here, take this piece of blank paper, and run me through how are you storing posts, and comments. And when loading a particular post, how are you going to load the posts and comments associated with them.

Joe: works through it

Me: That looks great, but I am concerned about the number of db hits.

Joe: suggests some kv store suitable for it, talks about storing graphs

Me: I think that's good enough. How about implementing upvote/downvote/recall vote.

Joe: Need to change the db models. I skipped them in the first iteration.

Me: Let's skip it. You know about closures? Care to quote me a particular example of closures?

Joe: function translator(el) { return function(text) { $(el).text(text); } }

    // Translate all i18n elements
    $('.i18n').each(function() { 
        // Text and callback
        AJAX_API.translate($(this).text(), translator(this));
    }
And so on and on.

I don't see why I need to specifically ask about your education. I might ask about your work experience, but not necessarily.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#165

Post by 16s »

People like this who know a lot of folks and who get along and are likeable can be a huge asset. You may not want them selling for you, but you certainly want them to mingle, talk to potential clients and take them to dinner, etc.

They aren't idiots, they are very valuable employees when used appropriately. He would make an excellent client relations manager.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#166

Post by lurker17 »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #116
tptacek wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the mid-90s I got reasonably far down the road with an interview at DE Shaw / Juno and stopped it cold when they demanded school transcripts. I guess I'm unreasonable, but, if you're looking for data points: hi, I'm a candidate who will turn you down cold if you require school information from me. For a long time, I thought this was a New York thing, but, no; I got an offer from a very excellent NY tech/finance co…

I read that Google asks for it, but they are a bit, er, happy when it comes to statistical analysis. IIRC they were not impressed by the statistical power of transcripts.

And yet they require transcripts (or did a few years ago).

Maybe they've learned from past mistakes? Or their model can't handle NA values on some features?

Re: How to hire an idiot

#167

Post by lurker17 »

tptacek wrote: post #86
natrius wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always ask, not because it's required, but because the answer is often enlightening. Judging companies for asking isn't reasonable.

In the mid-90s I got reasonably far down the road with an interview at DE Shaw / Juno and stopped it cold when they demanded school transcripts. I guess I'm unreasonable, but, if you're looking for data points: hi, I'm a candidate who will turn you down cold if you require school information from me. For a long time, I thought this was a New York thing, but, no; I got an offer from a very excellent NY tech/finance co…

Maybe you are a better founder than employee, and everything worked out for the best for both sides, so the transcript policy is optimal.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#168

Post by lurker17 »

mrb wrote: post #56
philwelch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I've been cold-called or cold-emailed by many a "senior recruiter", but never a "junior recruiter" or even simply a "recruiter".

Job-title inflation is real. A decade or two ago, titles were more modest.

Everyone at staff level in financial sector has been a VP since as long as I have known the financial sector existed.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#169

Post by leftnode »

mrb wrote: post #56
philwelch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, I've been cold-called or cold-emailed by many a "senior recruiter", but never a "junior recruiter" or even simply a "recruiter".

Job-title inflation is real. A decade or two ago, titles were more modest.

At my last job, every developer was a Senior Engineer. I chose Software Mechanic as my title.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#170

Post by [deleted] »

irahul wrote: post #164
bane wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not that I was talking to you (I was talking to cookiecaper) But I appreciate the interest even if your reply is a little bit of a response to something I didn't say. Near as I can tell your process appears to be first come first serve. By your own statements, you don't look at resumes, and you apparently don't ask any particular questions about work history or education during your interview process. I'm guess…

> By your own statements, you don't look at resumes, and you apparently don't ask any particular questions about work history or education during your interview process. This thread is already a bit too long, and I haven't read through tptacek's link about his hiring process, but: 1. you don't look at resumes, If I am hiring for a ruby on rails position specifically, the only thing I need to check is if you know ruby…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN