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Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

nytimes.com

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Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#181

Post by musicale »

Retric wrote: post #164
kareemsabri wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vacuum cleaners mainstream since at least the 1950s > dishwashers 1970s > microwave ovens available but fairly expensive in the 80s, ubiquitous in the 90s

The point was vacuums etc have gotten a lot better over time. Electric motors are noticeably lighter, more powerful, and more energy efficient today. Yes vacuums in the 1980’s worked but they where significantly heavier, louder, and far more power hungry not to mention more expensive. It might not seem like much but I remember the exhaust from the family vacuum being noticeably warm. It’s even more noticeable with co…

The Dyson bagless/root cyclonic vacuum design completely took over.

"Hoovering" really became dysoning.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#182

Post by colechristensen »

dockd wrote: post #175
Barrin92 wrote: post #122

Because new technology is as Thiel often quips limited to the world of bits rather than the world of atoms. Paul Krugman once asked, if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Gordon in the Rise and Fall of American Growth gives a similar example, what if you went into a time capsule between say 1890 and 1950 compared to 1960 and 2010? In one…

How about money? In 1960, you either had to have cash or find a place that took a check to make purchases. Maybe some places took a credit card. Ever have to wait in line behind someone that is writing a check? "Productive" won't come to mind. To get that cash you had to walk into a bank during banking hours. Then we got ATMs and could get our money any time of day. No more cutting out of work to deposit that royalty…

Honestly the change is pretty small.

Up until at least the mid 90s everywhere took checks. Honestly today interacting with the cash register at CVS takes longer than writing a check.

Sure, a 30 second check writing reduced to a 10 second tap to pay can be a little bit of an improvement (except when it doesn't work), but really it's not that much better.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#183

Post by colechristensen »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #154
Barrin92 wrote: post #122

Because new technology is as Thiel often quips limited to the world of bits rather than the world of atoms. Paul Krugman once asked, if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Gordon in the Rise and Fall of American Growth gives a similar example, what if you went into a time capsule between say 1890 and 1950 compared to 1960 and 2010? In one…

> if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Yes. Even the cheapest house built to code will be noticeably better than one from 1980s. The quality of materials, technology of materials, wiring, plumbing, flooring, insulation, etc will all be better. > The difference between a car right now and a car 30 years ago is that you can now play angry…

I have lived in "luxury" apartments lately and they're all filled with the cheapest possible materials. More "advanced" in that as much as possible things are build of engineered materials which end up being a sort of wood and glue foam which are definitely not meant to last.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#184

Post by lotsofpulp »

colechristensen wrote: post #183
lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Yes. Even the cheapest house built to code will be noticeably better than one from 1980s. The quality of materials, technology of materials, wiring, plumbing, flooring, insulation, etc will all be better. > The difference between a car right now and a car 30 years ago is that you can now play angry…

I have lived in "luxury" apartments lately and they're all filled with the cheapest possible materials. More "advanced" in that as much as possible things are build of engineered materials which end up being a sort of wood and glue foam which are definitely not meant to last.

“Luxury” is simply a marketing term and has no importance.

The relevant question is how do the cheapest materials today compares to the cheapest materials in the 1980s?

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#185

Post by turzmo »

Curious how productivity is measured. Tried skimming the associated government PDF from the article, but it is lost on me:

"Nonfarm business sector labor productivity decreased 7.5 percent in the first quarter of 2022, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today, as output decreased 2.4 percent and hours worked increased 5.5 percent"

How is this "output" measured, and what does it include? Has it kept up with the times? If I produce more Furbies for cheaper, does this productivity number go up? What if I create an ad-supported iPhone game as a solo developer that reaches millions of people? Does that factor into "output" somehow? Is the accounting different if I sell the game on the App Store, without ads instead? Did an educational company that recorded VHS tapes of science lectures for schools count into productivity before, but now that there is high-quality "free" (ad-supported) content on the internet, that no longer is a producing segment of our economy?

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#186

Post by rablackburn »

analog31 wrote: post #169
lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Yes. Even the cheapest house built to code will be noticeably better than one from 1980s. The quality of materials, technology of materials, wiring, plumbing, flooring, insulation, etc will all be better. > The difference between a car right now and a car 30 years ago is that you can now play angry…

My house was built in the early 60s, has hardwood flooring throughout, copper plumbing, the wiring is all in hard conduit, the 2x4's are actually a bit thicker than today's, and of a higher grade. The original windows are still functioning, though not as efficient as modern ones. The appliances are modern because they've all been replaced. Today's house in the same region uses lower grade lumber, carpeted floors, Rom…

The hardwood floors sound nice, but as far as I’m aware plastic plumbing is much more preferable over copper.

Need to fix a leak in a copper pipe? Get ready to weld and bend pipes. Need to fix a plastic pipe? Unscrew that section, and screw in a new one. No drama.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#187

Post by [deleted] »

simplify wrote: post #144
IshKebab wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Well yes, because we have solar panels and heat pumps and battery powered power tools and vacuum cleaners and dishwashers and microwave ovens and smart lights and ... You wouldn't expect walls and carpets to change.

Flooring has changed too. Carpets are better looking and more resilient. Click vinyl is stronger, has good texture, easier to install, and is super durable.

[deleted]

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#188

Post by burnished »

tunesmith wrote: post #170
Quinner wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30 years ago in order to navigate somewhere you had to ask someone for directions and write down notes. If you missed a turn, god help you. We fundamentally move through the world vastly differently thanks to digital maps. Many people (and in a few years, the majority) are doing so in cars that use electric motors instead of internal combustion engines. One way to tell whether you're in an 80s house would be to look…

I think your last sentence is unnecessary. What purpose does it serve?

It relates the audience and the author on an emotional level.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#189

Post by musicale »

DanBC wrote: post #150
IshKebab wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Well yes, because we have solar panels and heat pumps and battery powered power tools and vacuum cleaners and dishwashers and microwave ovens and smart lights and ... You wouldn't expect walls and carpets to change.

> You wouldn't expect walls and carpets to change Yes, but even there we're not using flammable polystyrene ceiling tiles, nor asbestos floor tiles and asbestos glue any more.

Window insulation and heating/cooling efficiency are often greatly improved as well.

Also air conditioning is ubiquitous.

Re: Why isn’t new technology making us more productive?

#190

Post by pessimizer »

dockd wrote: post #175
Barrin92 wrote: post #122

Because new technology is as Thiel often quips limited to the world of bits rather than the world of atoms. Paul Krugman once asked, if you go into an average house right now and you take out all the screens, could you tell that you're not in the 80s? Gordon in the Rise and Fall of American Growth gives a similar example, what if you went into a time capsule between say 1890 and 1950 compared to 1960 and 2010? In one…

How about money? In 1960, you either had to have cash or find a place that took a check to make purchases. Maybe some places took a credit card. Ever have to wait in line behind someone that is writing a check? "Productive" won't come to mind. To get that cash you had to walk into a bank during banking hours. Then we got ATMs and could get our money any time of day. No more cutting out of work to deposit that royalty…

> Now, what's the productivity measure in that? I have no idea.

Bordering on nothing, I think, other than that we have the opportunity to make street robbery much less lucrative if we stopped artificially inflating the price of phones, because people don't have to carry cash any more (if they're content with each purchase being recorded and data mined by 20 different companies and their government's intelligence agencies.)

Burglary rates have dropped precipitously with cheap big screen tvs and cheap audio players. My dad built his entire young life around putting together his very expensive stereo system, I have a single dirty old bluetooth speaker that sounds nearly as good. Being not worth stealing makes it even better.

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