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I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

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Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#181
I love LaTeX whole-heartedly. I never learned Word in college and wrote all my papers in LaTeX as an undergrad, just using its default styles. I write mathematical papers to myself, despite not being a mathematician. I found a LaTeX package that lays things out in the same style as old TSR D&D modules and I use that to write new dungeons. I wrote a book in markdown and used pandoc to output LaTeX and publish it through Amazon. I write silly scripts for my friends to do table reads from, using a LaTeX package. I write music scores of my composition in lilypond and one of my next projects is to combine it with LaTeX to print out books I can have on my piano.

Ultimately, I think wrestling with LaTeX is kind of like wrestling with programming. Over time, you just have to develop that sense of radar that tells you when you are over-implementing. In programming, it's the choice of whether to write custom or hunt for a library, or at a higher level, the build-vs-buy question. For LaTeX, it's whether to wrestle with custom commands or just search its stack exchange or hunt for a package. It's still easy to go down the wrong rabbit hole - last time it happened to me it was because I got obsessed with wondering if I could create nomographs in LaTeX, but luckily I discovered pynomo instead.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#182
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I just did my resume in LaTeX, it's such an obtuse and painful tool, yet nothing even comes close to the control it gives you. Hey btw, I'm looking for contract work! https://github.com/1player/resume/blob/master/resume.pdf

Surely plain old html does?

It's not the right tool for the job, in this case perfectly laying out text on a A4 sheet of paper. HTML is made for variable-sized screens, and can be repurposed to be printed, but it's still trying to screw a nail in when all you need is a hammer.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#183
post #151

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Not to mention that when it fails to compile, at least in Overleaf you get an error log that is hopelessly useless and the only thing you can do is just remove your changes until it works again. LaTeX is a cool idea, but the implementation? Absolutely horrid.

There are two big challenges: One is that TeX, the underlying executable behind LaTeX, is pushed to its limits¹ to run. The macro expansion paradigm behind LaTeX made sense in 1982 but there are a lot of decisions underlying the executable and TeX-the-language that were dictated by the computing technology of the 1970s (forget Unicode, standard ASCII wasn’t universally available when Knuth wrote TeX). The other probl…

I haven’t seen any updates to your “finl is not LaTeX” page in a while. I’m glad to hear you’re still working on the project.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the advantages of languages with optimizing compilers. In Python, there's a tradeoff between clarity and performance. But in C++ for example, your for-loop is just as fast as any library's for-loop. Edit: My assumption is that many Python libraries are written in C for performance, but maybe that's not the case.

>But in C++ for example, your for-loop is just as fast as any library's for-loop. This is most definitely not true. Even stuff like subtle aliasing guarantees can make code run an order of magnitude faster or slower.

Another example is the order in which you access memory. To multiply two matrices, in one you move by row and in the other you move by columns. One makes the cache happy and the other unhappy, so it's faster to transpose one of them (the correct one, I never remember) and them "multiply" them. We notice this in Fortran with -O2, but the difference disappears in Fortran with -O3, so the compiler is doing some magic.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#185
post #150

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I always like to see it the other way around, it eliminates entities that are not a good fit, and the remainder is what drives adaptation. Of course, people could argue that's just like Michelangelo [1], and we're back at 'designed'. [1] “The sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.”

The process of evolution is more than just the elimination of unfit specimens. That suggests that a tiger is just a tiger, and the only kind of evolution that can occur in the tiger is for it to become a better (faster, stronger) tiger. But in fact there was a time when carnivores didn't even exist, and then some random genetic flux produced an animal that was inclined to start eating other animals and a new ecologic…

In my interpretation entities != organisms

Entities could be alleles, genes, or gene products

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#186
post #79

Try TeXmacs, it's neither TeX nor it's Emacs clone. TeXmacs is WYSIWYG scientific editing platform. Documents created can be saved in TeXmacs, Xml, Scheme, PDF or Postscript. Converters exist for TeX/LaTeX and HTML/MathML. It can also be used as a graphical front-end for other computer algebra, numerical analysis, statistics software[1]. [1] https://www.texmacs.org/tmweb/home/welcome.en.html

Another good WYSIWYG front end is LyX: www.lyx.org . I've written a few hundred physics lecture notes with it, as well as a number of Beamer presentations. I find it much easier to use than TeXmacs (mainly because of keyboard shortcuts), and the output is excellent. And yes, it produces true TeX/LaTeX.

Finding Lyx when I was at university saved me an immense amount of frustration while producing beautiful output. My girlfriend used Word 95 and I spent many more hours helping her format and fix her projects than I ever spent dealing with issues in Lyx. Once I had it setup how I needed it it just works.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#187
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two big challenges: One is that TeX, the underlying executable behind LaTeX, is pushed to its limits¹ to run. The macro expansion paradigm behind LaTeX made sense in 1982 but there are a lot of decisions underlying the executable and TeX-the-language that were dictated by the computing technology of the 1970s (forget Unicode, standard ASCII wasn’t universally available when Knuth wrote TeX). The other probl…

I haven’t seen any updates to your “finl is not LaTeX” page in a while. I’m glad to hear you’re still working on the project.

I should have an update when the next crate is ready for publication—I ended up writing some Unicode handling stuff because unicode-segmentation didn’t offer the interface I needed while unicode_categories is outdated and has a flawed implementation (my replacement code is 10x faster by my benchmarks). I need to do some additional work to verify that my segmentation algorithm is at least comparable in speed to unicode-segmentation and fix that if it’s not and I’ll have a 1.0 release of finl_unicode ready probably in the next month.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#188

I also have a love & hate relationship with LaTeX. I think it really boils down to the following: LaTeX will work excellently for you, so long as your use case was envisioned by the original authors. I can't say that the original authors of LaTeX didn't envision using it for creating slideshows/presentations, but I can say that making a beamer theme is uniquely complicated. I wish that LaTeX had something as flexible…

I don't mind Beamer, there's some boilerplate but it is like a once-per-institution setup so it doesn't seem like too big of a pain. It was hopefully done by someone else, and if not, I only have to do it once for myself -- and then I can share it.

However, drawing figures in TikZ seems to be the main way of getting figures into a beamer presentation. This is a total nightmare and not really worth the effort, IMO.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#189
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong agree. My fiance and I wrote our thesis simultaneously, she in Word, while I used LaTeX. The amount of stupid figure- and page- rearrangements she suffered because she removed half a sentence from the middle, while LaTeX generated sane output with basically any text seriously made me much more productive.

Word has had automatic reference numbering for a while now (see for instance [0]). Not denying that it's not very known (nor pleasant to use), and I'm not even talking about bibliography. I made my partner switch to Latex thanks to the bibliography. Writing tables almost made her switch back to Word. [0]: https://www.sfu.ca/~ljilja/cnl/info/UseCrossReference/index....

I've written two thesis in Latex and a small 100 page book in Word.

Word 2000 performed wonderfully. I had no problems with references or images shifting around, no strange errors, nothing. Bibliography sucked, but in general it was a pleasure to work with.

Word 365, on the other hand, is something I have to force to do what I want again and again. It is built in such a way that doing things cleanly and error-free is difficult and much less obvious than in Word 2000. Even standard tools like image anchors, which worked nicely in 2k, are not reliable anymore. I got the feeling that this is due to automatisms aimed at casual users.

Re: I hate LaTeX, I love LaTeX

#190
post #141

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Yes! Plain python is almost always crystal clear and self explanatory. But "idiomatic python" which people seem to compete to be "more idiomatic than thou" is none of these things. It's actually a barrier to learning the language.

Someone pointed out to me recently as you say, the idiomatic python sometimes seems like more of a barrier. It takes more time to parse and grok, for their human brain, a for loop with a zip having multiple interables vs nested for loops. I've been thinking about this. So take, a list comprehension, supposedly better than a for loop at times. The canted take would be that list comprehensions are said in a way of what…

Worth pointing out that list comprehensions aren't just a stylistic preference or syntactic sugar, they're significantly better performance than the equivalent for loops.
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