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How to hire an idiot

nukemanbill.blogspot.com

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Re: How to hire an idiot

#81
post #75
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an education section on my resume, as I'm a high school dropout myself. Last year I was looking for a new job and shot my resume to probably a dozen different companies. Of those, the only company who asked about the lack of an education section was Bloomberg (of the ~8 people I had in-person interviews with, at least half of them asked me about it, in fact, which told me a lot about what the company was…

I always ask, not because it's required, but because the answer is often enlightening. Judging companies for asking isn't reasonable.

For me, interviewing with a company is as much about me judging whether or not the company is a good fit for me as it is them judging whether or not I'm a good fit for them. If it's clear from the interviewers that they're looking for someone with a college degree and a CS background, then not only am I not a good fit for them, they're not a good fit for me. With the ability to choose to work for the vast majority of tech companies, I'd rather err on the side of being very picky about who I spend my time with. In the case of Bloomberg, those who asked me about my education were clearly biased (not in the question itself, but in the context, tone, etc) against those who are self-educated, and that's not at all the environment I want to work in.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#82
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you notice that on a resume? High school drop-outs don't write "high school drop-out" on their resume. In fact, many people, including many of the best people, don't put "education" on their resume at all.

I think an "education" section is a boilerplate resume item. If it wasn't there, I'd at least ask for details.

Education is absolutely a boilerplate resume item. I can't even count the number of time irregularities in just that one section ended up providing deep insight into a good or bad candidate.

Everybody who has an education puts it on their resume even if it's 30 or 40 years old and they jam it at the bottom in a small font.

For example:

A weird school name - "International University of America", "University of New York City" often points to a diploma mill or a lack of degree

Missing GPA - The rule of thumb is, put it on if it's a 3.5 or higher. Don't put it on if it's lower and let the employer guess or ask during the interview. Or...if it's missing assume it's below a 3.5. It's up to you how much weight that has in the interview. You may be targeting a school or degree major that make it very hard to get a high GPA. If the school does some artsy fartsy "non-traditional" grading system and doesn't use GPAs, or they are from a foreign country with a different system, figure out what they do use and ask that during an interview. If the school is an "every one is a winner just for trying" school, they probably aren't the candidate you are looking for anyway.

"Attended xyz" or "Coursework in major abc" - means they didn't finish school. Somebody currently going will likely have a "estimated completion Spring of 20xx" or some such instead.

"Environment" - I see this often from candidates from India, and I don't know why this happens, but they'll list a perfectly good school and education credentials, then list environment and virtually every piece of hardware and software that they happened to have had in the room with them during their studies regardless of their use of it or not. Ignore this since it's obviously coming from some weird resume writing coaching and probably a result of trying to cram a CV into a resume format.

No colleges listed only a high school - no problem, if the candidate looks good, they might still be a fantastic hire. Especially if they are young and haven't decided what to do yet. You can always go back to school. You usually see this on resumes of young candidates or experienced candidates with no upper education.

There is no excuse to not have an education section on a resume. Experienced people will tend to put it at the bottom and let their work history speak for them, and inexperienced candidates will do the opposite. Resumes without that section should go straight in the shredder, same as resumes with typos, grammar errors, punctuation problems, a constantly changing font (or Comic Sans). It's like not putting your callback #, email address, home address or work history.

Also, if you are about to hire somebody based heavily on their education pedigree, you should absolutely use this service http://www.nslc.org/. The number of fake degrees on resumes is astonishing sometimes.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#83
post #77
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not use HR people as references! You're better off cherry-picking your references than you are trying to be "honest" about them and not knowing for sure what your reference is going to say about you. As long as you actually worked with the person who's giving your reference, you're fine.

Follow-up: 3. Is this situation like resume/cover letter advice, where everyone has their own favourite system and each person's advice for the perfect application is different?

So many people coach their references --- that's the whole reason we go through the trouble of doing backdoor references! --- that you can safely assume any prospective employer has already factored coaching in to any reference you give them. Which means, game-theoretically, you might as well coach them.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#84
post #82
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an "education" section is a boilerplate resume item. If it wasn't there, I'd at least ask for details.

Education is absolutely a boilerplate resume item. I can't even count the number of time irregularities in just that one section ended up providing deep insight into a good or bad candidate. Everybody who has an education puts it on their resume even if it's 30 or 40 years old and they jam it at the bottom in a small font. For example: A weird school name - "International University of America", "University of New Yo…

I spend a huge amount of time every week reading resumes and talking to candidates and it simply is not my experience that everyone who "has" an education puts it on their resume.

The only people who ever put their GPA on their resume are people with one or fewer jobs after college. Unless the best conversation you're prepared to have with a prospective employer is about your years in school, leave your GPA off your resume.

Any employer who "shreds" resumes without "Education" sections is a fool, full stop.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#85
post #81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always ask, not because it's required, but because the answer is often enlightening. Judging companies for asking isn't reasonable.

For me, interviewing with a company is as much about me judging whether or not the company is a good fit for me as it is them judging whether or not I'm a good fit for them. If it's clear from the interviewers that they're looking for someone with a college degree and a CS background, then not only am I not a good fit for them, they're not a good fit for me. With the ability to choose to work for the vast majority of…

Ok, that makes plenty of sense.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#86
post #75
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an education section on my resume, as I'm a high school dropout myself. Last year I was looking for a new job and shot my resume to probably a dozen different companies. Of those, the only company who asked about the lack of an education section was Bloomberg (of the ~8 people I had in-person interviews with, at least half of them asked me about it, in fact, which told me a lot about what the company was…

I always ask, not because it's required, but because the answer is often enlightening. Judging companies for asking isn't reasonable.

In the mid-90s I got reasonably far down the road with an interview at DE Shaw / Juno and stopped it cold when they demanded school transcripts.

I guess I'm unreasonable, but, if you're looking for data points: hi, I'm a candidate who will turn you down cold if you require school information from me.

For a long time, I thought this was a New York thing, but, no; I got an offer from a very excellent NY tech/finance company a few years before we started Matasano, and nobody there was dumb enough to want to see my report cards.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#87
The reason you get head nods when you relate this experience, in my opinion, is that versions of this sort of thing are all too common when hiring sales people. Sorry to be biased, but I'll go as far as saying that there's a certain separate species in the sales world. By now I recognize a lot of the signs, but it cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars and a lot of lost business to get there. Just ask fellow entrepreneurs "What's the secret to hiring a sales person?" and watch as the first reaction is eyes rolling.

If business where easy everyone would be doing it. Don't give up, you'll figure it out.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#88

There is an art to checking references. Even if a company has a policy of giving bare minimum information, find out a TELEPHONE NUMBER of someone in that company who knows your candidate and start a conversation. I was given a specific script of questions to ask back in the 1990s when I was a community volunteer for my local public school district, doing reference checks on superintendent candidates. A consultant adv…

You might be surprised how often bad hires end up not having any real references at all, and just bluster their way through that part of the interview. For too many of us, reference checking is an afterthought. Fortunately, when you're small, the feedback loop is tight and you only need to get burned a couple times before you take it seriously.

By which I mean to say, even an anodyne reference ("yes I worked with person, yes I would hire them for this role") is a major improvement over no reference at all.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#89

The reason you get head nods when you relate this experience, in my opinion, is that versions of this sort of thing are all too common when hiring sales people. Sorry to be biased, but I'll go as far as saying that there's a certain separate species in the sales world. By now I recognize a lot of the signs, but it cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars and a lot of lost business to get there. Just ask fellow entrep…

EVERYBODY HAS THIS PROBLEM HIRING DIRECT ENTERPRISE SALES PEOPLE.

Everyone.

It's hard to hire good direct sales people into a new sales organization for the same reason that it's hard to find an effective SEO consultant on the open market: the people that have this skill can make it rain money and are not looking for jobs. So you can safely assume that almost everyone you're talking to for your first sales hire is a product of adverse selection.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#90
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is a lot of places will not make any further comment beyond confirming the employee worked there and perhaps the circumstances of their departure (resignation/laid off/fired). This is often for legal reasons.

I've posted about this before, but I wanted to again bring it up as a note of caution for people who might be looking for work. My present employer (who I've finally decided to try and make my former) has a policy forbidding any employee from serving as a reference to any former employee. They are literally not allowed to comment in any way, but are told to forward all inquiries to a phone number which will verify em…

I understand how the company arrived at it, but that's a horrible, damaging rule.
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