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A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

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Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#31

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

numpad0 wrote: post #15

... large format laser printer, like A2 and up, in full color? Looks like there are few full-sized office photocopiers that can handle it as well as few models sold as drafting plotters, but the failed print he is holding in the video is an A4 sheet. Any lasers can do A4 just fine, some A3 as well.

Does he really need to hold up a botched A2 printout to prove that he needs non-botched A2 printouts?

Surely those are orthogonal requirements, the size of the sheets and the ability to successfully fuse the toner? Can’t we in all fairness take him at his word that he sometimes wants to print at a larger size?

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#33

Post by ratww »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc. Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam. Am I just unlucky…

Even if you manage to bypass the problems you mention (by bypassing the popular subreddits), Reddit has become a terrible source of information in general.

The old "site:reddit.com" trick doesn't work that well anymore. Well, it returns old results, so there's that.

Smaller Subreddits have not only become echo chambers, but they now seem to cater to people trying to get into the field rather than the previous mix of professional and semi-professionals. And I have the impression that 90% of the advice being give is being done by amateurs who never earned any money from the field they're giving advice of and are rehashing echo-chamber advice. It's like a worse Quora.

When there is any sort of equipment involved, they seem to have become an Instagram feed, with only photos of the acquisitions. There's rarely any insight into the product itself, it's always people posting things right after opening the box, sometimes from their car, rather than "playing" with it and posting something more insightful afterwards.

The worse part: when there is any marketable skill related to the niche, the only discussions there will be about how to market it. RIP music production and game development subreddits.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#35

Post by numpad0 »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc. Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam. Am I just unlucky…

Odds of searching for "[obscure proper noun] [issue in fewest words] site:reddit.com" solving a problem is good. "site:5ch.net" sometimes works too for certain deeper topics by the way, and Reddit is a sunny day in a park compared to 2ch.net/5ch.net.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#36

Post by chrischen »

sokoloff wrote: post #13

Anything A3+ (13” x 19”) or smaller in the commercial printing industry is pretty universally considered “small format”. (Some places consider anything sheet-fed as small format and sheets come a lot bigger than A3+.) It’s not surprising that searching using a specific industry term that’s different from your understanding of it would bring results for that larger-than-you-thought category of product. Further, the sm…

I think your take is a bit generous for that website.

Take this blurb for example:

> HP Designjet Z9+ PS Large Format Color Inkjet Printer As one of the most expensive printers on the market, this HP DesignJet Z9+PS provides exceptional color control with a secure wireless connection and fast printing. Without a doubt this is a large format laser printer of the highest quality which can produce prints up to 44 inches wide.

It's literally written in a way that is completely lying and designed to mislead and keyword stuff. It's not even trying to hide the fact that it's lying to a human reader since it contradicts itself immediately by calling it an Inkjet printer (which it is). It makes more sense when you realize it's not trying to trick the human reader at all! It's trying to trick Google bot!

The title of the article implies it is about laser printers or at the least laser-like printers, but the list contains inkjet printers, making it somewhat useless even if some of the results are in fact laser-like printers because it forces the person to continue to sift through the spam for what they need.

The whole article is garbage information and just because it accidentally actually included one or two laser printers does not mean it is a relevant result! Why are you nit-picking on Adam Savage being wrong about how there is indeed a laser printer when the literal whole article is mostly lies.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#37

Post by pvg »

sokoloff wrote: post #13

Anything A3+ (13” x 19”) or smaller in the commercial printing industry is pretty universally considered “small format”. (Some places consider anything sheet-fed as small format and sheets come a lot bigger than A3+.) It’s not surprising that searching using a specific industry term that’s different from your understanding of it would bring results for that larger-than-you-thought category of product. Further, the sm…

For a huge pile of things that aren't consumer goods, google is pretty good at figuring out what you're looking for even if you use imprecise terms, especially if the particular imprecision is common among non-specialists. That's sort of the selling point of google search and why the primary interface to just about all general-purpose web search engines isn't what used to be called 'keyword search'. It's definitely a search engine quality problem

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#38

Post by aksss »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc. Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam. Am I just unlucky…

I don’t think you’re leveraging Reddit correctly. I use Google, search for something like “Kokatat icon drysuit site:Reddit.com” and am going to find far more useful human, real-world info than if I just use google to search the naked Internet, where the results would be half a page of ads and half a page of marketing, SEO-optimized sales or affiliate sites.

So I don’t think the paradigm people are referring to is going to Reddit and browsing about (Reddit’s own search engine is pretty crap, too), it’s targeted searches using Google but constraining results to a particular resource, in this case Reddit, but it works with any sufficiently good community, whether hacker news or f150forums.com, for example. It’s about going where the real users are.

Obviously ymmv depending on what you’re searching for. Insanely broad topical searches like “inflation” probably will yield crap results and dick pics from Reddit.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#39

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

mhio wrote: post #23
sokoloff wrote: post #13

Anything A3+ (13” x 19”) or smaller in the commercial printing industry is pretty universally considered “small format”. (Some places consider anything sheet-fed as small format and sheets come a lot bigger than A3+.) It’s not surprising that searching using a specific industry term that’s different from your understanding of it would bring results for that larger-than-you-thought category of product. Further, the sm…

Are there even lasers in the large format (50cm+ x roll of paper) realm? I thought it was all ink plotters/printers, at least that's all I've seen in print shops or design places. A lack of lasers might contributes to the SEO spam for the odd terms. Maybe `a3 laser` or `wide format laser` ?

Yes. There are are "presses" that are effectively industrial laser printers. Commonly used for print on demand and other lower production volume jobs.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#40

Post by LaGrange »

mattlondon wrote: post #19
chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc. Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam. Am I just unlucky…

Reddit is a cesspool compared to what? Certainly not here. Sure, r/gaming is garbage, but overall my experience with Reddit is fairly positive. Especially if you’re looking for things like product advice, but it’s also the main source for eg. trans surgery and fashion advice. Things that are literally scary to discuss here.

But also community? People really over use that word. There is no Reddit (or HN) community. Some subreddits to communities, but most are just strangers passing each other in the fog. And that’s fine. I’m trying to buy a touring bike and plan by gender affirming surgeries, not find friends.

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