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Guns, Privacy, and Crime

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91–100 of 149 posts

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#91

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and don't want guns is just plain obvious, like "water is wet and the wind blows". Civilized life is life with low crime so you don't need guns. They're far more trouble than solution. But talk an American talk about gun control and they go full crazy on "socialist…

You talk about America like it is civilized... we fight being civil tooth and nail. We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s (don't think that it ended in the 1850s, and it's still legal to enslave prisoners).

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#92

I lived out in Berlin where basically nobody except the police and the (really) bad guys are armed. Sure, there's burglary, but much more likely was bicycle theft... I had three stolen in one calendar year. To be honest, I was more comfortable that none of my a-hole neighbors were armed, because they would have pulled a gun on you for leaving out the rubbish an hour too early or talking to loudly after 8pm.

What about your neighbors in Austria, Finland, Iceland, Czech Republic, Switzerland, or Norway? Because tons of those neighbors also own guns, but you aren't really any more likely to get shot there than you are in Germany (all of those countries have less than 3 deaths by firearms per 100k people). And if you're just looking at crime that is not intentionally self-inflicted, you're looking at less than 1 death per 100k.

Almost all international statistics on gun ownership and gun violence in developed countries show a direct relationship between the two...at least until you take out the largest outlier, the United States. Then that relationship completely disappears.

Because you aren't more likely to die because more people own guns. You're more likely to die when your neighbors are poor. A more rigorous approach, which keeps the US "outlier" but also doesn't discard developing countries shows an extremely strong relationship with crime: poverty. Specifically the number of people living below the poverty line. The US, despite it's level of wealth and development, has a huge poverty problem, and that poverty problem turns into violent crime problems in the US just like it does literally everywhere else in the world.

Your neighbors in Austria, Finland, Iceland, Czech Republic, Switzerland, and Norway have figured it out: actual functioning gun regulation that still liberally allows for gun ownership (even scary assault weapons!), but stronger emphasis on a well functioning economic society. It's quite a bit ironic that the gun control policies that the US left so vigorously pushes for won't really have a measurable effect, but the poverty-reduction measures that they have all but abandoned actually would. I really wish they could be steered in the right direction, but I've given up hope.

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#93

I lived out in Berlin where basically nobody except the police and the (really) bad guys are armed. Sure, there's burglary, but much more likely was bicycle theft... I had three stolen in one calendar year. To be honest, I was more comfortable that none of my a-hole neighbors were armed, because they would have pulled a gun on you for leaving out the rubbish an hour too early or talking to loudly after 8pm.

Pointing a gun at someone is generally a crime in the US. No need for the hyperbole around gun ownership and people's behavior

Yeah:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQ72NZtrS0

Never ending:

* https://twitter.com/well_regulated_

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#94
post #91

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and don't want guns is just plain obvious, like "water is wet and the wind blows". Civilized life is life with low crime so you don't need guns. They're far more trouble than solution. But talk an American talk about gun control and they go full crazy on "socialist…

You talk about America like it is civilized... we fight being civil tooth and nail. We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s (don't think that it ended in the 1850s, and it's still legal to enslave prisoners).

>We're a country that enslaved people up until the 1930s

How?

>it's still legal to enslave prisoners

You mean other countries just let prisoners go free, or what are you getting at? Other countries don't have work farms for prisoners?

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#95
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that blind people are somehow irresponsible on account of their disability?

I suppose I am, yes. Not of all blind people of course, but of one that owns and fires a gun. How can a blind person shoot a gun in a responsible way?

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGPlZ9Ctptg&t=900s

Provided you have someone pointing you in the right direction and making sure that downrange is clear, there's nothing wrong with this.

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#96

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and don't want guns is just plain obvious, like "water is wet and the wind blows". Civilized life is life with low crime so you don't need guns. They're far more trouble than solution. But talk an American talk about gun control and they go full crazy on "socialist…

I'm not American and resent that individuals cannot arm themselves, if they choose to. We have no defence against the government and its agents. You may think the government is benign - I do not. I could ignore government a lot easier, and its abilities to write special laws to sanction it doing whatever it likes, if I had the ability to defend myself. So, you and I had better convince ourselves that the government r…

> We have no defence against the government and its agents.

Oh, I am sorry to hear that. In both my native (Portugal) and adoptive (Canada) country we do have defences: votes, freedom of assembly and speech, passports,...

They're far more effective than guns.

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#97
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt the narrative that someone who would pull out a gun over trash would spare the time to think twice.

The pull a gun over trash scenario is kind of ridiculous because the gun puller would be arrested. And it just doesn’t happen. It would go like this: 1) I leave trash out 2) Neighbor yells and pulls out gun 3) I put up trash 4) I call police, neighbor is arrested and gun is taken away forever. I think there’s a perception of “crazy people owning guns” means they are just randomly doing things. Gun owners are typicall…

> The pull a gun over trash scenario is kind of ridiculous because the gun puller would be arrested. And it just doesn’t happen.

"Doesn't" is a strong word:

* https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-cop-who-pulled...

* https://www.fox4now.com/news/local-news/cape-coral-resident-...

> I think there’s a perception of “crazy people owning guns” means they are just randomly doing things. Gun owners are typically pretty responsible or self-destructive.

The problem is there is no filter in the US for the people that are not "pretty responsible or self-destructive." Just about any rando can get a gun in many states.

> The actual argument is about the extreme outliers who murder people and commit mass shootings.

No, it's about the 'background noise' of destruction that is on proverbial page 17 of the newspaper:

> A member of our well regulated militia allows a juvenile access to a loaded gun. The juvenile brings the gun to the home of a 14 year old friend, who shoots himself in the head unintentionally. He doesn’t survive.

* https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/15183659425894113...

> A member of our well regulated militia moves a loaded gun from a bedroom to a bathroom, then leaves it there. Her 6 year old son finds the gun when he goes to take a shower and shoots himself in the head. He does not survive.

* https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/15229931050662502...

> A (drunk) member of our well regulated militia spots her neighbor grilling burgers, so she walks over and points a handgun at his face and says "bang bang." When police arrive at her home, she points a cane at them and pretends it's a long gun.

* https://twitter.com/Well_Regulated_/status/15158166918082273...

See also:

* https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#98

It is so weird to see Americans talking about guns... When you live in a society without guns everywhere, the notion that law-abiding citizens don't need and don't want guns is just plain obvious, like "water is wet and the wind blows". Civilized life is life with low crime so you don't need guns. They're far more trouble than solution. But talk an American talk about gun control and they go full crazy on "socialist…

I get where you're coming from, but have you met our wildlife? Even the notoriously anti gun Canadians will make exceptions for polar bears and moose.

Well, yes. I am an European living in Alberta, Canada.

Never met wolves, but did meet a lot of bison, moose, elk and even one black bear.

But a disclaimer, I was carrying a bear spray/pepper spray can. You might think that qualifies as a gun...

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#99

An armed society is a polite society. -- RAH

> An armed society is a polite society. -- RAH

You may wish to actually look up the Heinlein quotation and its context:

> To begin with, the quote isn’t a Heinlein quote any more than “I seen that black n****** yonder ruttin’ on my Mayella!” is a Harper Lee quote. The “polite society” line comes from a Robert Heinlein character in the novel Beyond This Horizon. That character is a privileged product of generations of eugenics. He lives in a society where genetic manipulation has extended lifespans and overpopulation is a prime concern. In that world, dueling has been re-introduced not because it makes people “polite” but because it kills people. And the character likes it because he believes it specifically kills those lesser people, those genetically inferior people, who need to be weeded out to make room for the übermensch to thrive.

* https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/9/2/1881430/--An-armed...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_This_Horizon#In_popular...

Further:

> There are two problems with this line of thought. First, there is plenty of evidence that it is not true. Second, even if it were true, we shouldn't settle for this kind of "politeness."

* https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/ethics-everyone/2022...

Re: Guns, Privacy, and Crime

#100
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that blind people are somehow irresponsible on account of their disability?

I suppose I am, yes. Not of all blind people of course, but of one that owns and fires a gun. How can a blind person shoot a gun in a responsible way?

Same as any other prepared individual. Analyze your home, take note of individual entries to rooms, plan out to set up 90 degrees to the opening in the event of a break in. To stop bullets from leaving your house, set up full bookshelves behind the doorway when looked at from your chosen spot, or live in a brick house. Go with a sighted friend to the shooting range and have him call your shots to understand what distances you can point shoot at and hit a silhouette, this will let you know your capabilities without sight.

Or alternatively, the same exact thing you’d do as a responsible gun owner who was not blind.

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