A hacker's loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#51

Post by PieSquared » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 8:30 AM UTC

cowmoo wrote: post #44

menloparkbum wrote: post #6

"Is this indifference to the world a consequence of too much intercourse with machines that give the appearance of thinking? How were he to fare if one day he has to quit computers and rejoin a civilized society?... The more he has to do with computing, the more it seems to him like chess: a tight little world defined by made-up rules, one that sucks in boys of a certain susceptible temperament and then turns them ha…

Once a hacker, always a hacker. For anyone who has read J.M. Coetzee knows, he is no F. Scott Fitzgerald, the stereotypical glamorous and superfluous writer; his prose and temperament matches that of a mathematician, rational and precise but nonetheless beautiful in its own right. Without going to the emo's and my personal sob stories, I'll jump right into how I cope with dealing with loneliness and the mainstream so…

Somehow, that line just has a brilliant ring of truth to it: Once a hacker, always a hacker. And it's probably right. You can't go back to a life of normalcy after experiencing the exhilaration of hacking away at something for hours on end and finally getting it. What you can do, though, is apply your mind to the social system - as you said, hack it.

A lot of nerds and geeks (the ones I know at least) are unpopular not because they're unpleasant people (they aren't), but because they don't understand how the social system works, what you're allowed to say and what you aren't (and when). If you just watch people talking around you you can easily notice what annoys people or causes them to end the conversation, and avoid doing it. If you just apply your mind to everyday life, being involved in your surrounding culture really isn't that hard.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#52

Post by johnyzee » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:07 AM UTC

PieSquared wrote: post #51

cowmoo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once a hacker, always a hacker. For anyone who has read J.M. Coetzee knows, he is no F. Scott Fitzgerald, the stereotypical glamorous and superfluous writer; his prose and temperament matches that of a mathematician, rational and precise but nonetheless beautiful in its own right. Without going to the emo's and my personal sob stories, I'll jump right into how I cope with dealing with loneliness and the mainstream so…

Somehow, that line just has a brilliant ring of truth to it: Once a hacker, always a hacker. And it's probably right. You can't go back to a life of normalcy after experiencing the exhilaration of hacking away at something for hours on end and finally getting it. What you can do, though, is apply your mind to the social system - as you said, hack it. A lot of nerds and geeks (the ones I know at least) are unpopular n…

Actually Paul Graham discussed this point in an interesting way: If geeks are so smart, why don't they just work the social system the way they would hack a computer program?

I agree with his conclusion: Geeks care (desperately even) about being popular (or normal or whatever you want to call it), but they care more about other things. There are only 24 hours in a day. If you are way into tech stuff, math, physics etc. you can't at the same time spend all your time worrying about clothes and (rubbish) popular culture, socializing and leveling up in the social game.

Well, that and the fact that the geek persona is naturally skilled in very litteral disciplines, whereas social interaction is much more about 'soft' skills like empathy and intuition.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#53

Post by timmy2shoe9384 » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:10 AM UTC

Couldn't have put it better myself Steven Levy! The part about the consuming, Im here commenting to a comment that would never ammount to anything in the common society we know as human. Why do I waiste time? Apparently it consumes the part of life...::BLANK::.... O~~~~----______ ====~ (Fill) ('n) (Bla'k)

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#54

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:15 AM UTC

maximilian wrote: post #26

bbb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like the above always frustrate me. I'm in school (and have been for a long time). Many people that I respect told me: grad school was the best part in their lives, that I should enjoy my time, and that it only goes downhill afterwards (no more research, family obligations, boring jobs, administration work, etc.). Great. But what if I don't like my situation right now? What if I don't like grad school that…

Where you go to grad school (or undergrad) has a LOT to do with it. And some luck as well - Your dept might not have anybody you want to be friends with. But two years down the road might change everything. That said, for me, I've met the most people at school mostly because I find myself surrounded by people who I can identify with. Its easy to make friends in a group of people who are like you, but if you don't fee…

[deleted]

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#55

Post by johnyzee » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:21 AM UTC

bbb wrote: post #15

kolya3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is THE place to meet new people. In fact, enjoy the variety of people you meet at school now. It's harder to meet interesting people later on, after you are out of school. Most people are content with discussing what they saw on TV last night and what their lunch companion has on their plate. "Is that pesto?" Enjoy your school years :)

Statements like the above always frustrate me. I'm in school (and have been for a long time). Many people that I respect told me: grad school was the best part in their lives, that I should enjoy my time, and that it only goes downhill afterwards (no more research, family obligations, boring jobs, administration work, etc.). Great. But what if I don't like my situation right now? What if I don't like grad school that…

At any point in life, whatever someone did ten-twenty years ago was the best part of their life.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#56

Post by fgimenez » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:21 AM UTC

iamelgringo wrote: post #28

fgimenez wrote: post #17

This is sad, I feel this way while doing a CS degree at Berkeley and working in front of a computer for UCSF in my spare time. Instead of just complaining and racking up karma, I propose we meet up at a bar in the city (San Francisco to you non-bay area residents). Who's with me to get drunk and tell nerdy jokes on Saturday night? I'm totally not kidding. If you need an excuse, call it networking. If you don't, call…

A group of us do this on a pretty regular basis at Hackers and Founders: http://entrepreneur.meetup.com/1737/ We're getting together Next Wednesday.

Wow, that definitely sounds like something I'll be doing. Unfortunately, I've got 2 midterms on the Thursday afterwards, so I'll have to pass on this Wednesday. Thanks for the heads-up though. Hope to meet you there.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#57

Post by ohfour » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:25 AM UTC

bbb wrote: post #15

kolya3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is THE place to meet new people. In fact, enjoy the variety of people you meet at school now. It's harder to meet interesting people later on, after you are out of school. Most people are content with discussing what they saw on TV last night and what their lunch companion has on their plate. "Is that pesto?" Enjoy your school years :)

Statements like the above always frustrate me. I'm in school (and have been for a long time). Many people that I respect told me: grad school was the best part in their lives, that I should enjoy my time, and that it only goes downhill afterwards (no more research, family obligations, boring jobs, administration work, etc.). Great. But what if I don't like my situation right now? What if I don't like grad school that…

What people usually mean when they say this is simply that college is a fantastic experience - not that it's going to be the only one in your life.

The combination of being young, unencumbered and part of a huge community of people who are looking to have fun means that it really is easy to have a fantastic time. If you aren't enjoying yourself, it's more than likely because you simply aren't making full use of what's available to you.

Obviously not everyone likes to get out and network, but most people do (geeks included) and so for them college can be a great experience.

Basically, "enjoying life" is entirely something you choose to do. If you aren't taking the steps to make college really fun for yourself, then it probably wont be the high-point of your life. Presumably you'll discover a happy lifestyle somewhere further down the line and enjoy that instead.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#58

Post by Jem » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:28 AM UTC

arjungmenon wrote: post #23

menloparkbum wrote: post #6

"Is this indifference to the world a consequence of too much intercourse with machines that give the appearance of thinking? How were he to fare if one day he has to quit computers and rejoin a civilized society?... The more he has to do with computing, the more it seems to him like chess: a tight little world defined by made-up rules, one that sucks in boys of a certain susceptible temperament and then turns them ha…

It makes me regret when I recall how much of my life I've lost to programming. I spend most of my mid-teens (15,16,17) writing pointless C programs (interpreters, compilers, etc. for pathetic new languages that probably no one except me will use). While my classmates from high school went out dating girls, watching new movies, etc.; I would be sitting in front of my computer palms on forehead fixing hard to find C po…

For what it's worth, as a geek girl, I'd rather be with a guy who knew his way around a computer than one who spent his time chasing girls, getting drunk etc (the "normal" young adult things).

You just have to find someone to share your life with who matches your interests... there's no point trying to be someone else, someone you're not.

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#59

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 9:32 AM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #22

bbb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like the above always frustrate me. I'm in school (and have been for a long time). Many people that I respect told me: grad school was the best part in their lives, that I should enjoy my time, and that it only goes downhill afterwards (no more research, family obligations, boring jobs, administration work, etc.). Great. But what if I don't like my situation right now? What if I don't like grad school that…

For many cheerleaders high school is the high point in their lives. Popularity, likeminded people everywhere and absolutely zero responsibilities. So unless you're very similar to the person who tells you that grad school was the best part of his life, take it with a grain of salt. Maybe you like being responsible, maybe you like to work. The thing is, many people give up on their dreams just after grad school. Compr…

[deleted]

Re: A hacker's loneliness

#60

Post by Hutzpah » Thu, Sep 25, 2008, 10:06 AM UTC

yters wrote: post #38

Would it be different if hackers had the prestige of, say, a celebrity? From what I understand, most super successful people work horribly long hours, but I suspect the feeling of fulfillment is also based on the social prestige of what they do. Computing is so ubiquitous (and also the cause of lots of frustration for some people) that those who drive the field don't get the recognition they deserve. Maybe the whole…

also the prestige thing is a multi-dimensional thing. high-brow vs low-brow and things like that play into this.