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The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

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Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#41

Post by Gigachad »

fock wrote: post #22
michaelnoguera wrote: post #16

I have tried to faithfully summarize the video here. If you notice a mistake or omission, please correct me. Rossmann’s main message: “to complain about something that is an option rather than complain about all of the options that are missing misses the forest for the trees”. Key points: 1. For certain repairs, Apple’s repair program has “made availiable the exact same OEM parts and tools that they use” via rental.…

thanks, now I've skimmed the verge piece and read your summary and have to admit: wasn't the main point of the verge that it's absolute ridiculous that the "apple approved"-way of fixing things requires two peli-cases of custom tools. This doesn't scale FOR THEM and one of the main points of criticisim in the verge revolved around that! The whole process is just designed so that in 3-4 years Apple will go to their fa…

You don’t need those tools. It’s very easy to do with a hairdryer and a guitar pick. The point of the tools which is mentioned in the video is it allows a moron with no skill or hand to eye coordination to reliably replace batteries all day with no failures and a perfect finish.

You, a competent person, will just use a guitar pick and your fingers to do the same job. Or at least you won’t have anyone else to blame if you mess it up when apple offered the tools or the in store service to have it done.

Apple has a tool for putting glass screen protectors on phones, or unplugging the power cable from their monitors. All things normal people can manage just fine with their hands. But the tool costs very little when used regularly at a store and prevents the rare mistakes.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#42

Post by omegabravo »

Ekaros wrote: post #25

I think issue is that they come from different view points. Rossman runs a company offering these services and he sees issues what they are allowed and can do about repairs. And he has essentially trained and skilled labour to do it. On other hand Verge look it from consumer standpoint. Who might do one of repair every few years. From that view devices should be much simpler and easier to repair by unskilled owners.…

How do you get ever thinner phones without the tooling designed to dismantle it?

It's no different in other industries. Small and compact requires special tools. You (and I) being willing to compromise on size to have better ability to repair the device doesn't represent the market at all.

These complex engineered systems are going to continue to trend towards costly tools for repair.

In a similar way, ICs are also impossible to repair compared to decades ago when you could lift out a faulty memory chip and replace it.

It's far more important for companies like apple to accept 3rd party replacements and provide access to parts than worry about the speciality tools required unless they're there to be difficult. It certainly doesn't appear to be the case here.

A repair shop would buy these tools, because otherwise they risk damaging the ($1k) phone trying to save a few bucks.

Phones are going to be too complex for reliable home repair. I also don't repair my compressor in the AC, nor do I repair the wingdings in my vacuum cleaner. I just replace the part.

I think the compromise here is fine, they're not plastic welded, they're sealed with adhesive.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#43

Post by samsa »

ksec wrote: post #40
michaelnoguera wrote: post #16

I have tried to faithfully summarize the video here. If you notice a mistake or omission, please correct me. Rossmann’s main message: “to complain about something that is an option rather than complain about all of the options that are missing misses the forest for the trees”. Key points: 1. For certain repairs, Apple’s repair program has “made availiable the exact same OEM parts and tools that they use” via rental.…

Unpopular opinion. The Verge did exactly what Apple would have like them to do. And you could argue whether that was intentional or not. ( Part of the whole PR play is to shape public discourse ) By showcasing the proper way of doing it, or how it is done when you paid $69 in the Apple Store, the article has correctly set the stage for 99% of Tech readers. ( Non-Tech people never give a damn or wouldn't want to try i…

Apple would like you to have them / their contractors repair your device, or better yet buy a new one.

Everything about this program signals that Apple is grudgingly doing this. It's designed to scare people away from doing the repairs themselves.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#44

Post by Closi »

heisenzombie wrote: post #30
fock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks, now I've skimmed the verge piece and read your summary and have to admit: wasn't the main point of the verge that it's absolute ridiculous that the "apple approved"-way of fixing things requires two peli-cases of custom tools. This doesn't scale FOR THEM and one of the main points of criticisim in the verge revolved around that! The whole process is just designed so that in 3-4 years Apple will go to their fa…

It seems very unsurprising to me that Apple internally uses industrial tools and custom jigs and fixtures to repair iPhones. Right? Like, it would be super weird if they used low-cost hand tools. So is the complaint here that in addition to making the parts available to purchase, and a rental program for the “industrial” gear, they should also have developed a parallel set of low-cost tools and procedures for the hob…

Yeah! It would be weird to me if Apple said the official recommended repair process was to use a domestic hand-dryer or a hot water bottle and a guitar pick.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#45

Post by [deleted] »

fock wrote: post #22
michaelnoguera wrote: post #16

I have tried to faithfully summarize the video here. If you notice a mistake or omission, please correct me. Rossmann’s main message: “to complain about something that is an option rather than complain about all of the options that are missing misses the forest for the trees”. Key points: 1. For certain repairs, Apple’s repair program has “made availiable the exact same OEM parts and tools that they use” via rental.…

thanks, now I've skimmed the verge piece and read your summary and have to admit: wasn't the main point of the verge that it's absolute ridiculous that the "apple approved"-way of fixing things requires two peli-cases of custom tools. This doesn't scale FOR THEM and one of the main points of criticisim in the verge revolved around that! The whole process is just designed so that in 3-4 years Apple will go to their fa…

[deleted]

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#47

Post by arka2147483647 »

Gigachad wrote: post #41
fock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks, now I've skimmed the verge piece and read your summary and have to admit: wasn't the main point of the verge that it's absolute ridiculous that the "apple approved"-way of fixing things requires two peli-cases of custom tools. This doesn't scale FOR THEM and one of the main points of criticisim in the verge revolved around that! The whole process is just designed so that in 3-4 years Apple will go to their fa…

You don’t need those tools. It’s very easy to do with a hairdryer and a guitar pick. The point of the tools which is mentioned in the video is it allows a moron with no skill or hand to eye coordination to reliably replace batteries all day with no failures and a perfect finish. You, a competent person, will just use a guitar pick and your fingers to do the same job. Or at least you won’t have anyone else to blame if…

Iphones have IP ratings. Make tiny mistake in battery swap and display re-gluing process, and your phone is no longer waterproof.

There is a difference in doing something properly, and doing it ”good enough”.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#48

Post by nabla9 »

Ekaros wrote: post #25

I think issue is that they come from different view points. Rossman runs a company offering these services and he sees issues what they are allowed and can do about repairs. And he has essentially trained and skilled labour to do it. On other hand Verge look it from consumer standpoint. Who might do one of repair every few years. From that view devices should be much simpler and easier to repair by unskilled owners.…

There is something wrong in the other side.

Whey you try to make a phone that is water tight, very tiny, tough and as durable as possible, you can't expect it to be easy and safe to open with easy tools. These tools are still cheap enough that you could have them in your local community center or library (here in Finland we have weird stuff in local libraries) where people can do it.

Changing batteries to watertight wrist watches or is also hard.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#49

Post by zamalek »

dvhh wrote: post #23
de6u99er wrote: post #8

Remember The Verge's PC build video? https://youtu.be/2lmfF0k2UcU

I think it was admitted that the editing made things worse than it already was

He did a follow up video with LTT explaining everything (while building a PC). He got the script on/near to the day and it made no sense to him either. He may have made some mistakes under the pressure, but Verge was to blame for 90% of that train wreck.

Re: The Verge is so bad they have me defending Apple [video]

#50

Post by Gigachad »

arka2147483647 wrote: post #47
Gigachad wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need those tools. It’s very easy to do with a hairdryer and a guitar pick. The point of the tools which is mentioned in the video is it allows a moron with no skill or hand to eye coordination to reliably replace batteries all day with no failures and a perfect finish. You, a competent person, will just use a guitar pick and your fingers to do the same job. Or at least you won’t have anyone else to blame if…

Iphones have IP ratings. Make tiny mistake in battery swap and display re-gluing process, and your phone is no longer waterproof. There is a difference in doing something properly, and doing it ”good enough”.

Sure, and if you care, you can either rent the tools, or bring your phone to a store that has them. I’m not sure what more could be done.
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