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9-Euro-Ticket

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Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#471

Post by namibj »

kuschku wrote: post #244
fho wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have powerful ventilation and aircon systems ... well ... the ICEs AC is known to fail regularly at elevated temperatures :-)

Well, they were designed to survive everything except an every-100-years summer (36°C sustained outdoor temperatures) back in the 80s, which now happens to be every summer. Even the trains ordered in 2000 were designed for an every-100-years summer (40°C sustained outdoor temperatures) which now some regions are hitting every year as well. The issue isn’t the ACs, the real issue is climate change ;)

But per Carnot, maintaining a fixed temperature differential against a fixed thermal resistance is cheaper (requires less work) at a higher temperature (1/(1-(Tcold/Thot)) is the carnot-limited "coefficient of performance" for a heat pump). So theoretically they should be able to maintain the design differential even at higher outdoor temperatures, causing indoor temperatures to raise from ~21°C to 26°C comparing the "still works at 35°C" and "40°C happens regular in $current_year".

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#473

Post by locallost »

For comparison, the federal government is dead bent on building additional 4.1km of highway through Berlin that is estimated to cost over 500 million. And the critics say it will balloon to billions since the estimate is 10 years old anyway.

So basically millions of people will ride the train for three months for almost free, and the cost will be in the same ball park as 4km of one highway.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#474

Post by Pamar »

codefreeordie wrote: post #441
logifail wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The parent's point is that if you actually wanted to get there at any time other than exactly when the 7:08a train arrives, say because you have an appointment at a set time, then you're going to end up having a wait somewhere along your journey because the train wasn't on your ideal schedule. If you're travelling a significant distance by car for an appointment at a fixed time, don't you have to allow extra time f…

Yeah, if I was going far, I'd allow extra time, for sure. I don't actually live in Germany, so I don't really know how frequent these trains run. I have really only one example, where I missed a train from Frankfurt to Bingen, and had to pay a fortune for a cab ride because the next train was 3h later and I'd miss my planned day. But if that's a common frequency, the train can work out to be inconvenient, because you…

While if you use a car you are at the mercy of "baustelle" (roadworks) and constantly risk to have slowdowns (e.g entering a major city at critical times).

Until we have Star Trek teleports no single method of travel is "absolutely best". But dismissing trains altogether because they do not run at your own convenience looks a bit of a strawman to me.

I do not own s car anymore, but when it is really the best option I rent one. But I also check first if a bus or train gives me reasonable guarantees to reach my destination in time (if they do, they are also way cheaper, especially since COVID, at least here).

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#475

Post by kappuchino »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #334
kappuchino wrote: post #127

For anyone wondering why 9€? Not 10€ or 15€ or ... - its consistent with 101 consumer psychology. First: Its not free, its subsidized by the state. Free would suggest for some "not worth it". Not you, most likely, but this is why some free offers are not taken (seriously). If you want to see what free does, look for the Luxemburg experient: https://www.mobiliteit.lu/en/tickets/free-transport/ Second: Higher price poi…

> First: Its not free, its subsidized by the state. „The state“ doesn’t have its „own money“. It is subsided by the taxpayer.

Not a helpful comment. (And you should know.) The state is funded by taxes and other income. Germans elected representatives to decide/vote on issues like the 9euro ticket. You can try ad nauseam to redirect by adding complexity, but this was supposed to highlight that the difference is been paid for so that there is compensation the loss for regional public transport companies/structures. At the end, we are all atoms miraculously clustred together, somehow self aware and writing comments to each other. (Now go ahead, add some complexity and redirection again /s)

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#476

Post by rad_gruchalski »

locallost wrote: post #469
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, there's a program in place to help people with high prices, that he has to pay into, but doesn't get anything from it, while still being affected by high prices, that he might not be able to afford.

I live in Germany and I also have to pay for the construction of toll free highways and other very expensive car infrastructure. The tax on gas was reduced for the same months in the sommer which is on its own totally ridiculous, but it will also cost over a billion a month. I don't drive so I have nothing to gain from any of that -- but you don't get help from others if you don't help others, so you don't pick and c…

But you do consume stuff transported to your neighborhood by trucks and cars. Maybe you use public transport? That consumes gasoline/diesel and requires infrastructure. Or do you live on home grown food? How's the post at your door every morning? Ambulances? Police? Fire service? Electricians? Packets from Amazon or other MediaMarkt?

I don't believe you do not benefit.

Ask the people of Ahrweiler what is it like living without that infrastructure.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#477

Post by inferiorhuman »

jupp0r wrote: post #378
IMTDb wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly . Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start t…

You are making the assumption that it's one person traveling. If I imagine me traveling with my family, then the tradeoffs would look quite different: 1. There's only one driver in the car, so all other passengers could still work/read during the drive. 2. The cost is split. With three kids and two parents, the cost would be 45 EUR vs 50 EUR traveling with a somewhat fuel efficient car with an internal combustion eng…

As someone who generally prefers public transit to driving (especially in a foreign country - a lot will depend on where you're traveling. I usually travel solo but think in general it would scale pretty well. Of course if your kids are poorly behaved then it'll be more of a challenge.

I think having some familiarity with the infrastructure can go a long way into making the trip easier. Knowing where platforms are, which stations are easier to transfer at, etc.

2 – Don't forget road tolls, parking, and surprise maintenance.

3 – The most consistent "pain point" I've seen with transferring is simply walking from platform to platform. I can only think of a handful of stations that I'd actually consider difficult (e.g. BART's Millbrae and Madrid's Atocha station).

4 – Again, parking. In most big cities you're not going to roll right up to your destination and park.

5 – My experience has been it's as difficult as you make it. Hell I saw someone bring a refrigerator on Muni. Some places like Japan have low cost courier services that entirely negate the need to bring luggage with you. Just drop it off with the courier at the airport and have it sent to the hotel or nearest 7-11. In other places you'll find luggage racks or areas on the trains. Alternatively, pack less stuff. If you're traveling by car and need to use a rooftop box don't forget the hefty fuel consumption penalty.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#478

Post by kappuchino »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #344
foepys wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me an example where trees were cut and no new were planted. Coal mines are eating whole forests in North Rhine-Westfalia at this very moment and activists are getting beaten up by cops. Look up Garzweiler and Hambach [1]. You argument is the usual fear-mongering by (often right-wing) conservative politicians, wanting us to keep buying oil and gas from dictatorships. As you can see in France where they routinely…

Eifel. Around national park. I see it with my own eyes, I live here. Regarding Hambacher Forst. Does it not make you wonder why the situation quiet down while the country is going though an energy supply crunch?

Well, unless you have some data about loss of forest for wind turbines, your observations on your surroundings attached to 75% living in the cities is just anecdotal evidence casually presented as a fact. Not helpful in a discussion about a related topic, even less when this is about the 9euro ticket. For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

As for Hambacher Forst, you failed to mention that most issues have been either finalized in courts or were dealt with in protests/politics. I'm not taking sides since this was never a black or white situation, it is always a multi faceted problem. (Empathic example: For the people living in the villages that were destroyed, the loss of their homeland is for most of us simply unimaginable. Then again for some time, germany needed the energy from these deposits under the villages.)

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#479

Post by inferiorhuman »

SoftTalker wrote: post #420
IMTDb wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important. OP was explicitly comparing car and trains, not flight and trains. If that's the case, then we are more in the context of a "city trip", and Hamburg -> Berlin might not be the most representative case. Something along the line of Hamburg -> Rome is m…

> Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. Is this really true? DHL, FedEx, and UPS (and Amazon?) all operate their own freight aircraft. There are also contract freight operators. Most major airports have an entire area that is exclusively for freight operations. Yes some freight does go in the holds of passenger jets, but is it "most" or even close?

Yes, and during the pandemic when passenger traffic cratered passenger airlines started putting additional cargo in the passenger cabin. China started cracking down on that recently though (unsure why). Freight is generally far more profitable than passengers.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#480

Post by oneplane »

stavros wrote: post #370
LosWochosWeek wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've also seen the opposite being true. In Germany, oddly enough. It was called "Praxisgebühr" and it was a 10€ fee that you had to pay once per quarter year (if you went to a doctor in that quarter). Turns out, once people paid the 10€ they got into a all-you-can-eat frenzy and visited more doctors than they normally would have done, because "well, I paid for it, so might as well take advantage of it".

That's not so much the opposite, but I agree. If it were 5€ per visit, you'd probably see a lot less of this.

We have a system where you're going to pay about 350 per year for those little things if you use them. Going into a frenzy using all of that is just going to waste your own time as it takes quite some effort to use up that 350 already.

Then again, regardless of the rules and processes we make, there will always be people misusing/abusing it.

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