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Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

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Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#231

Post by ErrantX »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #68
ErrantX wrote: post #55

So I am seeing more and more of ideas like this; but I feel the need to challenge them a bit. Not the ideal; work less, have more fulfilling lives - I am all in. But all of these initiatives are focused on the wealthier office workers and sometimes factory/shift workers who are non-customer facing. But it totally ignores the service industry which is a huge part of our society (and arguably even more so if we end up…

No matter how much currency you give the poor in society, there won't be an incentive to reward people which provide zero value. Prices will just go up. How much free time you have could very well be a function of how valuable / hard to automate your work is.

I fundamentally disagree; the smartest and wealthiest of our society should also be working hard to make the lives of the poorest better.

You are sort of making my point; proposals like this assume that those who contribute "less" are less valuable - but of course that is only true on one scale.

As a though exercise; if someone is physically disabled to the extent they cannot work and need regular care should they a) live hand to mouth and unable to afford non-essentials? Or b) should they be comfortable and capable of indulging in luxuries.

Currently our society says they have zero value so (a). I argue that it should be (b)

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#232

Post by ErrantX »

joomooru wrote: post #134
mrpotato wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there won't be an incentive to reward people which provide zero value. I am assuming you mean "who don't work" when you say provide zero value. The poor encompass more than just people living in a cardboard box in some alley. There are poor people living paycheck to paycheck who are barely able to afford food AND a roof over their head. A poor person can be a single parent with two kids who works two minimum wage j…

Really telling when a person equates low wage with providing no value in society. So much for "essential workers" being forced to work in-person during the pandemic

Indeed. I have a top 1% salary but my pleasant life is provided largely by those earning under 30K GBP. This is probably true of the majority here...

It wears heavily on me daily.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#233

Post by ErrantX »

oramit wrote: post #226
ErrantX wrote: post #55

So I am seeing more and more of ideas like this; but I feel the need to challenge them a bit. Not the ideal; work less, have more fulfilling lives - I am all in. But all of these initiatives are focused on the wealthier office workers and sometimes factory/shift workers who are non-customer facing. But it totally ignores the service industry which is a huge part of our society (and arguably even more so if we end up…

Thanks for this. There is a bit of tone deafness in this thread with everyone calling for fewer days of work so they can relax and then go to the cafe or linger over dinner while also wanting all those businesses to be open for them at all times. If we want to change the societal norms around working hours it has to include everyone, not just software developers or else it isn't going to stick. Though honestly this t…

Yes and it is interesting that the response to my comment is "oh we meant them too". Which I know is said in good faith but it fundamentally shows a disconnect from how a huge portion of our society lives.

How many of us would forgo a Starbucks on Friday in order to have that 4 day week?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#234

Post by paulsutter »

junipertea wrote: post #222
weldedtogether wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see the same issues in education with kids learning in different ways, and those who learn better in X way might learn less because they're being taught in Y way. It comes down to the overhead in time and complexity (usually money as well) being too high to justify accommodating everyone. We just sorta jam everyone into the same thing and figure we'll get enough out of them. As the culture shifts more toward worke…

Different learning styles are actually disputed [0], but I agree that 1. it's easier for employer to fit everyone in one box. 2. If people had more individual approaches, they would work better [0] https://www.educationnext.org/stubborn-myth-learning-styles-...

Your link doesn't demonstrate that all people learn in the same way, merely tries to debunk a specific/narrow set of learning styles (that seem bizarre in the first place)

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#235

Post by rsanek »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #224
davidweatherall wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire based on working style.

This is a really great way to introduce systemic neurodivergency filters and expose a greater surface area for unfair hiring practice lawsuits.

Not sure if I'm just missing the sarcasm but almost all companies have been hiring based on the same working style of 5 days a week, 8+ hours, in office, open workspace for quite a while. What's the problem with choosing a different set of strongly opinionated defaults?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#236

Post by qwerty456127 »

bckr wrote: post #207
qwerty456127 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know you're not to supposed to listen to advice on the Internet Perhaps that's the conventional wisdom yet advices on the Internet are exactly what I hunt for by writing this kind of comments here :-) For a reasonably rationally minded person this is a great input of things to explore. Many such advices already changed my life for good.

Another thing to look into is whether you have snoring / sleep apnea. Most people who do, it seems, are not aware of it. 2 easy, objective tests: 1) Ask your sleeping partner, if you have one, if you snore. 2) Record yourself sleeping. I used an app called SnoreLab which does audio analysis to give you a numerical rating and pulls clips of likely snoring moments so you don't have to scrub through the entire night's r…

I often snore when I sleep on my back. So I always sleep on my belly and don't snore. This developed before I even finished high school. I have never been (and am not) even slightly overweight.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#237

Post by qwerty456127 »

Aeolun wrote: post #123
qwerty456127 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job is easy, crisis-proof and generally fun, not to mention 6-7-hour workdays which many can only dream about (not a common thing to find at my location). I just hate getting up in mornings, having fixed time schedule and spending many days in a row working this way. But that's the standard almost everybody has to deal with. So I don't feel like changing the job. Perhaps I'm going to return to flexible-schedule gi…

Move to the Netherlands. Our workweeks are 28hr on average (that includes part time work, but I think that’s still like 50% of all people).

Ok. Thank you. I'm studying Dutch already (seriously).

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#238

Post by rsanek »

corrral wrote: post #204
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #173

Here's an idea: "roller coaster week" Monday: 4 hours Tuesday: 6 hours Wednesday: 10 hours Thursday: 6 hours Friday: 4 hours total: 30 hours How it works: - Monday: The second half of your day is work. Your morning is open to sleep in, get chores done, run errands, eat brunch with friends. Second half of the day should be meetings to plan the work for the week, and catch up from the previous week. - Tuesday: Very few…

Looks like hell for trying to schedule anything kid-related.

4/5 days in this proposal are better than most people's existing 9-5 schedule.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#240

Post by digisign »

zwily wrote: post #58
Apreche wrote: post #24

Why not both? 4 days, 6 hours each. Hey employers reading this. Having a hard time finding software engineers? Offer me this and I will come running. I’ll be banging on your door with my resume. Think about it.

You can already find this. It’s called a “part -time job”. :)

Few of these offered for skilled workers.
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