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Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

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Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#191

Post by orangepurple »

mcv wrote: post #189
exabrial wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former "large China FAANG" employee here so I can speak authoritatively on this. These things above fail to take in the culture aspect. Generally, "being present" is considered "work", so the idea is to be present in the office for all of these hours. When "we" (Americans) showed up at 8a-9a, busted out an enormous of amount of code, email, meetings, etc then left at 4p-5p was quite a shock to our native compadres. O…

Even so, what's the point of "being present" at work and not actually working? I'd rather spend that time with my family or friends.

Perhaps its to maintain the perception of being of a higher social class than the peasantry (baseless speculation)

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#192

Post by wbsss4412 »

mcv wrote: post #189
exabrial wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former "large China FAANG" employee here so I can speak authoritatively on this. These things above fail to take in the culture aspect. Generally, "being present" is considered "work", so the idea is to be present in the office for all of these hours. When "we" (Americans) showed up at 8a-9a, busted out an enormous of amount of code, email, meetings, etc then left at 4p-5p was quite a shock to our native compadres. O…

Even so, what's the point of "being present" at work and not actually working? I'd rather spend that time with my family or friends.

I think they just explained it in their comment… your coworkers are your friends.

I think the flip side of what you’re saying is, why would you not want to be friends with the people you spend 8+ hours a day with during the workweek?

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#193

Post by freedom2099 »

rr808 wrote: post #160
high_byte wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how so.?

Everyone I know in non-tech jobs work minimum 40 hours a week. I know a bunch of people doing minimum wage jobs doing 80+ hours a week. I remember tech in the early days (and still at many jobs) working dawn to dusk. Now it seems developers are choosing between 4 day weeks and 6 hours/day? the job market is going to get a rude awakening.

Software engineers are hardly minimum wage jobs! And the human brain can’t sustain constant thought intensive tasks for long period of times continually… The dawn to dusk (if ever happened… I guess it depends on the country) it’s just a waste of time. Anyway I live on France and here the official working week is 35h!

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#194

Post by bodge5000 »

sph wrote: post #112
bodge5000 wrote: post #106

Funnily enough Im more the opposite. Give me 10 hour days for 3 days a week and I'd jump at the chance. An extra 2 hours at the end of the day isnt much to get used to, but being able to spend more full days not working than working would mean a lot to me. That vs the proposed 6-hour 4-day week some people mentioned in this thread, it'd be very happy with either obviously, but I still think I'd go for 3 days if I had…

Your brain and body recharges every night. Memory function actually improves over night. Doing more hours doesn't make you more productive, the amount of meaningful work you can do in a day is pretty much constant. I'm definitely in the shorter days camp. In my experience there's a 2 to 4 hour peak performance window and a long tail of diminishing brain power.

> Doing more hours doesn't make you more productive

Agreed, but nobody is gonna offer me 4 hours a day for 3 days a week. Being extremely optimistic, the best I can expect is 10 hour days for 3 days a week (though I dont thats gonna happen anytime soon either, so Im happy with 4 days).

Shorter hours but more/same days do little to nothing for me. I mean it'd be nice, but that or less days is a very easy choice for me.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#195

Post by gdfgjhs »

exabrial wrote: post #182
orangepurple wrote: post #7

Meanwhile in China... Excerpts below taken from the website https://996.icu/#/en_US What is "996"? 996 working, ICU waiting. A "996" work schedule refers to an unofficial work schedule (9a.m. ~ 9p.m., 6 days a week) that has been gaining in popularity. Serving a company that encourages the "996" work schedule usually means working for at least 60 hours a week. In early September 2016, it was said that 58.com (58同城, a…

Former "large China FAANG" employee here so I can speak authoritatively on this. These things above fail to take in the culture aspect. Generally, "being present" is considered "work", so the idea is to be present in the office for all of these hours. When "we" (Americans) showed up at 8a-9a, busted out an enormous of amount of code, email, meetings, etc then left at 4p-5p was quite a shock to our native compadres. O…

As a Pakistani-American, I can confirm, this is exactly how many people from my culture also work, though not as extreme as 9-9. We may take long lunches, go for multiple coffee breaks, walks, etc. May even watch some Bollywood movies while working.

But as a father, this is horrible work schedule. Culturally, it is totally acceptable for fathers to just provide but not really interact with their kids. Also there is an aspect of heroism of fathers working long hours to provide. And then, unfortunately, for some there is no option but to work long hours because they need extra money.

But some men would rather stay away from their children and let moms or grandparents raise the them. And I do know some such men. They stay late at work to avoid their families, they even bring their gaming laptops to work, so they can game after 5 and avoid their families. Honestly, work is a walk in a park compared to being a good father.

But it is hard to tell who is avoiding their families, who is staying late because of cultural pressures, and who really need to work late hours to provide for their families.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#196

Post by weldedtogether »

dsr_ wrote: post #141

Can we agree that different people have different optimal working styles? Some people get everything done first thing in the morning and are useless in the afternoons. Some people can't get started until noon whatever their local time is. Some people can commit to 10 or 12 hour days, and if so, it's not fair to ask them to work 5 days a week at that rate. Some people work best in private offices, some at separated wo…

We see the same issues in education with kids learning in different ways, and those who learn better in X way might learn less because they're being taught in Y way.

It comes down to the overhead in time and complexity (usually money as well) being too high to justify accommodating everyone. We just sorta jam everyone into the same thing and figure we'll get enough out of them. As the culture shifts more toward worker's work/life balance being important (if it ever does here in the US) I think this will change, but I don't think we'll see ever enough flexibility to accommodate everyone. We'll settle on another standard and stick to it till enough people complain.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#197

Post by irrational »

jacobr1 wrote: post #130
high_byte wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. people don't realize this, but IT'S OKAY to take a break... in my last office, besides dragging feet to get coffee it seemed people wouldn't even go stretch for 10 seconds. they even bought a brand new PS5 and NEVER even played for months and months (and it probably still accumulates dust over there...) it seemed inhumane - and crazy nobody told them it wasn't okay or anything... I like getting some sun, let the…

This is one of the reasons diversity (in this case neural diversity) is important in the office. I've worked in a number of startup where theoretically take breaks, playing video game, going for a walk, whatever was supported, but in practice nobody did it. But all it takes (when the management is supportive) is 1 or 2 outgoing people that make a point to prod their colleagues to do something. Working with a few peop…

>"hey, who wants to go play drisbee in 15 minutes" or "pinball tournament after lunch" makes the work environment much more enjoyable

Oh hell no. I need a break, but the last thing I want to do is take a break with other people. I'd rather sit at my desk pretending to work that go play games with other people. That is literally hell on earth.

But now I can't go for a walk on my own because then I'll get questions about where I am going and why didn't I go and play their stupid game with them instead of going on a walk on my own.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#198

Post by brnt »

artemonster wrote: post #119
brnt wrote: post #23

I worked in the Netherlands. They had a 36 work week and asked me how I preferred to arrange those hours. I said: divide it by five please. Apparently I was the first person in their history (3k people work there! 100 years old institution) who asked for that! Everyone took either a day every two weeks off or worked 4x9hrs. A day every week or two is nice, of course, but I generally really like short days better! Doe…

Do you know how people usually place their free day? Is it adjacent to weekend or middle of the week?

Wednesday was significantly more quiet at work.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#199

Post by zackmorris »

rr808 wrote: post #160
high_byte wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how so.?

Everyone I know in non-tech jobs work minimum 40 hours a week. I know a bunch of people doing minimum wage jobs doing 80+ hours a week. I remember tech in the early days (and still at many jobs) working dawn to dusk. Now it seems developers are choosing between 4 day weeks and 6 hours/day? the job market is going to get a rude awakening.

This is our failure.

I got into tech in the 90s specifically to avoid the 9-5 dead-end job and ended up working mostly exactly that. But hey, we have billionaires now.

If we want a 30 hour workweek, we need to deliver it to everyone in the world with real tech. No more phantom tech distraction BS.

Solar. Permaculture. Robotic hydroponics. Real recycling. Personal digital assistants (and I don't mean tablet computers). Independent income streams beyond mining crypto and donating plasma. This stuff is so incredibly obvious but the entire weight of the global economy keeps us running the rat race instead of solving the real problems. Now work is just another form of escapism to distract us from stepping into our power and taking agency over our lives.

The ultimate expression of tech is the 0 hour workweek and self-actualization for the entire human race.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#200

Post by yamazakiwi »

charcircuit wrote: post #73
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, unfair, and morally wrong, but we can understand what it comes from: this is a difference between the so-called "developed" and "developing" countries. Because why do we work? To have money so that we can live comfortably. Work is not meant to fill in 40 or more hours of our life, it's just a means to and end. If we can have enough money by working less, many people chose this way. In the meantime,…

Maybe that is true for you, but not everyone. Some people actually like their work and find it fun and meaningful.

C'mon, they're obviously speaking for the majority but yes, as you've stated there is a minority that finds their work fun and meaningful. That is incredibly lucky and great for you!
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