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Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

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Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#221

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

charcircuit wrote: post #73
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, unfair, and morally wrong, but we can understand what it comes from: this is a difference between the so-called "developed" and "developing" countries. Because why do we work? To have money so that we can live comfortably. Work is not meant to fill in 40 or more hours of our life, it's just a means to and end. If we can have enough money by working less, many people chose this way. In the meantime,…

Maybe that is true for you, but not everyone. Some people actually like their work and find it fun and meaningful.

Actually, I do like my work but I prefer to have a choice whether to work, say, 30 hours and earn slightly less or work "full time" (what a terrible choice of words) and earn the same as my colleagues. Most employers don't give me that choice and force me to work 40 hours.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#222

Post by junipertea »

weldedtogether wrote: post #196
dsr_ wrote: post #141

Can we agree that different people have different optimal working styles? Some people get everything done first thing in the morning and are useless in the afternoons. Some people can't get started until noon whatever their local time is. Some people can commit to 10 or 12 hour days, and if so, it's not fair to ask them to work 5 days a week at that rate. Some people work best in private offices, some at separated wo…

We see the same issues in education with kids learning in different ways, and those who learn better in X way might learn less because they're being taught in Y way. It comes down to the overhead in time and complexity (usually money as well) being too high to justify accommodating everyone. We just sorta jam everyone into the same thing and figure we'll get enough out of them. As the culture shifts more toward worke…

Different learning styles are actually disputed [0], but I agree that 1. it's easier for employer to fit everyone in one box. 2. If people had more individual approaches, they would work better

[0]https://www.educationnext.org/stubborn-myth-learning-styles-...

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#223

Post by gabrieledarrigo »

I actually work 4 days a week from 3 years and a half circa, and to be honest, I simply cannot get back to the classical 5 days/40 hours jobs. I'm simply more productive, more motivated, and I finally have free time to make something else (for example: I just completed a Bachelor's degree in CS). In regards to 996, I have no gentle words for China and their work (slavery) culture: life is too short to work so much.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#224

Post by kelseyfrog »

davidweatherall wrote: post #202
barkerja wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100% with this take. But my question is: how do you mesh all these types together and run an effective team/company? Or is that even possible?

Hire based on working style.

This is a really great way to introduce systemic neurodivergency filters and expose a greater surface area for unfair hiring practice lawsuits.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#225

Post by bombcar »

There are different kinds of "work" and generalizing to one set schedule isn't going to work for everyone.

A retail clerk can likely do a 10 hour shift with little to no loss of productivity in the later hours - and some jobs basically just need a human there to monitor the process - those likely would do well on 4/10 shifts.

But other kinds of work can't get much beyond six hours a day anyway, in which case spreading it out may make sense.

But there's also a weird "fairness" aspect - even if everyone would be better off with varying schedules, people would think it "unfair" - and it's visible. If Sally gets paid half what you do, you never know. But if she leaves after 4 hours each day, you start to feel annoyed.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#226

Post by oramit »

ErrantX wrote: post #55

So I am seeing more and more of ideas like this; but I feel the need to challenge them a bit. Not the ideal; work less, have more fulfilling lives - I am all in. But all of these initiatives are focused on the wealthier office workers and sometimes factory/shift workers who are non-customer facing. But it totally ignores the service industry which is a huge part of our society (and arguably even more so if we end up…

Thanks for this. There is a bit of tone deafness in this thread with everyone calling for fewer days of work so they can relax and then go to the cafe or linger over dinner while also wanting all those businesses to be open for them at all times. If we want to change the societal norms around working hours it has to include everyone, not just software developers or else it isn't going to stick.

Though honestly this thread is making me think that we need to basically reinvent the Sabbath. I'm old enough (mid 30s) to remember when most everything was closed on Sundays and now it's just another day for errands and brunch. Even holidays that were considered sacrosanct like Christmas and Thanksgiving you can now go to the store or they have absurd opening hours the day after (black friday) so that retail workers can't even enjoy the Holiday because they have a 4am shift the next day. We're seriously out of whack here in the US.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#227

Post by ErrantX »

mrpotato wrote: post #94
ErrantX wrote: post #55

So I am seeing more and more of ideas like this; but I feel the need to challenge them a bit. Not the ideal; work less, have more fulfilling lives - I am all in. But all of these initiatives are focused on the wealthier office workers and sometimes factory/shift workers who are non-customer facing. But it totally ignores the service industry which is a huge part of our society (and arguably even more so if we end up…

> You will still want an Uber after 5pm, or a shop or restaurant to be open on a public holiday. No one says this change doesn't apply to people in those industries or in shift work. You have to remember that the idea is more to reduce work from 40 hours per week to something like 32 hours per week (30 in OP's case). In this case, you can still have restaurants open late, it would just mean the schedule would be shor…

I still don't buy that. In an office job you can find cost neutral ways to cut hours: a lot of people in this thread have said they would work harder in less time to achieve the same outcome, as a really simple example.

That's patently not an option in the service industry. You help people cut hours but now a restraunt, say, needs a percentage more staff (each of whom comes with a salary overhead) at a higher hourly wage.

This is before you consider the scale of it. About 85% of UK jobs are in the service sector. There is a massive labour shortage in key service areas anyway. At the same time, highly leveraged office workers cut their hours and have more leisure time, so service industry demands go up.

It's just not an easy pitch to make in my book. If I wanted to cut my hours I absolutely could come up with some automation and investment to help me do that, and my employer might agree to invest in that because I have high value and strong individual leverage.

That is just untrue for the vast majority of the service industry.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#228

Post by aeyes »

voxl wrote: post #153
lvl102 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be honest, if you ever worked in East Asian countries with these work ethic culture, you’d know they just sit around the office doing absolutely nothing. It’s bullshit.

Do you really think a factory worker doing 996 isn't constantly moving/making something? Because if so, then you've clearly never done any factory work, in the US or otherwise, those jobs are nonstop work, even if it is menial work.

Working factory is mind numbing in some ways but a lot of things that burn you out just don't exist: Politics, context switching, firefighting, changing priorities, working irregular hours to get project out of the door, meetings, Slack chats or phonecalls...

I love nonstop work, the problem is that a lot of times I have to unblock problems, stop to talk to other people, there are dependencies or things are on fire so a lot of time is spent busy waiting. It is work but it is not rewarding and you don't actually get much done.

Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO

#230

Post by mcv »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #192
mcv wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, what's the point of "being present" at work and not actually working? I'd rather spend that time with my family or friends.

I think they just explained it in their comment… your coworkers are your friends. I think the flip side of what you’re saying is, why would you not want to be friends with the people you spend 8+ hours a day with during the workweek?

And if you get fired, you get fired from being friends with them too?

I certainly want to be able to get along with my coworkers, but it's not quite the same thing as being friends. There are few former coworkers that I keep in touch with after I leave a job. I tend to have my friends outside work. And my family too.

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