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Inkscape 1.2 released

inkscape.org

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Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#221
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. No, you won't. Unless you think almost no software is worth it, or you're a billionaire..... I think you'r interpreting what I said as buying all rights to the software outright or something. I'm not quite sure. I meant buy as in pay for the right to use it. >the issue for me anyway - is whether it is legitimate for the state to police the population to the extent of preventing the sharing of information, includi…

> I meant buy as in pay for the right to use it. I meant the same thing. You don't have the money for it. Ok, maybe if you mortgaged your house, you might. > It's legitimate for the state to wield the powers delegated to it by the people. One can debate what powers have actually been legitimately delegated, if any (also depends on where in the world you live.) I argue people have certainly not delegated the power to…

If you mean the same thing by pay for software then I’m truly lost. I pay for loads of software. I largely find it quite affordable.

As for democratic legitimacy, I think your position is absurd. There is clearly no real public appetite to change the status quo on copyright law. If there were it would be an electoral issue, and it just isn’t.

> This argument didn't hold much water before there was a decent infrastructure of free software,…

Free software covers some basic commodity software and infrastructure needs and that’s about it. The first areas to be covered were tools and applications needed by software developers, text editors, compilers and such.

Beyond that the development of FOSS applications was very slow and incomplete. Meanwhile commercial software saw massive investment and the development of a plethora of both general and niche applications, including in many areas no FOSS applications even exist to this day.

The commercial software industry consists of hundreds of billions of dollars in investment in software globally very year. It employs many tens of millions of developers, but also artists, designers, researchers, QA testers, trainers, and domain experts in almost every field of human endeavour that contribute to the refinement of the software. The FOSS ecosystem is pitifully tiny in comparison and it’s finding Morris can’t hope to come close to providing a viable alternative.

I’ll give two example from personal experience. In one job I worked for an independent software vendor that developed an application for designing cellular radio networks. It used terrain data and radio propagation modelling formulas to calculate signal strength and interference maps to help cellular network companies optimise their antenna placement and orientation. This was in the late 90s. No FOSS solutions exist in this space even today, developing the software took the input from a team of radio engineers as well as developers. The company also employed professional technical writers, application support personnel, trainers, a whole ecosystem of professionals.

The next job I worked at was an ISV developing derivatives trading applications for banks, pension funds and such. The software included front ends for traders, order routing servers, and interface gateways that connected to derivatives markets all over the world. Again the input from domain experts in trading was key, software developers on their own needed help to understand what traders needed, and how markets work.

Again, no open source solutions like that exist, and I don’t see any funding model coming along to address a need like this.

Even when FOSS does address a market need for applications, it often lags decades behind commercial applications, and is highly derivative of them, simply copying commercial application designs. People simply can’t wait half a lifetime for FOSS developers to get around to addressing a requirement, when commercial vendors can marshal Millions of dollars of investment to get useful applications to market in just a year or two.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#222
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would still use inkscape, it's way faster and lighter and though it crashes sometimes, it doesn't corrupt files like Illustrator. It also has (IMO) a simpler interface that's somewhat more discoverable than Illustrator but not by much.

> it's way faster Does Inkscape have GPU rendering yet or does it still slog down on anything more complicated than a minimalist icon?

I think it does software rendering and there's some tearing while you zoom but it opens much faster and is more responsive than Illustrator.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of, but it's not the whole story. They do use cairo for rendering to a CGContext via cairo_quartz_surface_t which has traditionally not been all that great on macOS. Additionally they're dealing with colorspace transforms on more recent macOS along with some bugs in macOS that were causing non-native applications to do considerable damage/redraws. If/when Inkscape moves to GTK 4, a lot of this will just go away.…

Isn't openGL deprecated in favour of Metal on macos? I assume the transition to Metal might not be too big though?

Maybe if someone comes along to write one or we get a multi-backend shader compiler so it doesn't explode the number of shaders we have to write and optimize.

But honestly, it doesn't matter. Apple just shipped a new OpenGL for M systems and every major browser is using GL more than ever. It's not going anywhere. And even if it did, we have a Vulkan backend that can target MoltenVK as well as Mesa's Zink already supporting at least OpenGL 4.6 which could also be run on MoltenVK with very little overhead.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of, but it's not the whole story. They do use cairo for rendering to a CGContext via cairo_quartz_surface_t which has traditionally not been all that great on macOS. Additionally they're dealing with colorspace transforms on more recent macOS along with some bugs in macOS that were causing non-native applications to do considerable damage/redraws. If/when Inkscape moves to GTK 4, a lot of this will just go away.…

But GTK4 text rendering is blurry

Mac's generally have a HiDPI screen so they shouldn't be affected by the issue you're parroting.

That said, I already wrote GLyphy integration for GTK 4 and it may land before 4.8. It can significantly improve font rendering quality by drawing the glyphs on the GPU rather than from CPU drawings uploaded into an atlas which is pixel boundary bound.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#225
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I meant buy as in pay for the right to use it. I meant the same thing. You don't have the money for it. Ok, maybe if you mortgaged your house, you might. > It's legitimate for the state to wield the powers delegated to it by the people. One can debate what powers have actually been legitimately delegated, if any (also depends on where in the world you live.) I argue people have certainly not delegated the power to…

If you mean the same thing by pay for software then I’m truly lost. I pay for loads of software. I largely find it quite affordable. As for democratic legitimacy, I think your position is absurd. There is clearly no real public appetite to change the status quo on copyright law. If there were it would be an electoral issue, and it just isn’t. > This argument didn't hold much water before there was a decent infrastruc…

> If you mean the same thing by pay for software then I’m truly lost. I pay for loads of software. I largely find it quite affordable.

So, you're rich, or you magically avoid the expensive software. Just as an example: Suppose I live in Peru and make the median income of ~3800 USD/year. Just a license for photoshop sets me back 252 USD/yes, or over 6.6% of my gross annual income. If you consider my taxes and very modest expenses, this becomes more like 10-15% of my free gross annual income. For a single application. Now suppose I want to buy a hundred apps or so (some subscription-based, some one-off). I won't be able to repay the debt before I'm dead.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#226
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean the same thing by pay for software then I’m truly lost. I pay for loads of software. I largely find it quite affordable. As for democratic legitimacy, I think your position is absurd. There is clearly no real public appetite to change the status quo on copyright law. If there were it would be an electoral issue, and it just isn’t. > This argument didn't hold much water before there was a decent infrastruc…

> If you mean the same thing by pay for software then I’m truly lost. I pay for loads of software. I largely find it quite affordable. So, you're rich, or you magically avoid the expensive software. Just as an example: Suppose I live in Peru and make the median income of ~3800 USD/year. Just a license for photoshop sets me back 252 USD/yes, or over 6.6% of my gross annual income. If you consider my taxes and very mod…

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, clearly enough people do pay for commercial software to fund it's development, otherwise it wouldn't get funded. Therefore, as a matter of gob-smackingly obvious reality, it is affordable enough for the model to work. I feel bad for Peruvians that can't afford it, I hope they find a way to get by, but that doesn't make the existence of commercial software a bad thing.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But GTK4 text rendering is blurry

Mac's generally have a HiDPI screen so they shouldn't be affected by the issue you're parroting. That said, I already wrote GLyphy integration for GTK 4 and it may land before 4.8. It can significantly improve font rendering quality by drawing the glyphs on the GPU rather than from CPU drawings uploaded into an atlas which is pixel boundary bound.

It's very unclear to me wether hidpi makes the non-subpixel rendering bearable or wether the rendering would still be better if it exploited subpixel antialiasing on 4K, it's just that the perceived difference is smaller and good enough. I don't know.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use source control or do you email zips with the source files between you and the other developers? The collaboration here is exactly the same as that distinction in workflows. It's obviously not just "two clicks", it's "Text copy 2 final final alt reviewed.doc" and then you get a new person email their suggested updates to you as "Text copy 2 final 2.doc" and you have to somehow merge those suggestions in wit…

> you'd need to conceptually understand what edits were made Same effort as reviewing the file history > and then make them again manually to the "head" version Copy + Paste

This post is about Inkscape and Inkscape svgs dont have any edit history baked into them. If you had a dozen revisions and one of several collaborators sends you a suggestion version which they edited from some unknown revision what would you do with that? The file itself doesn't imply what deltas they made, and "copy paste" doesn't make sense, since what would you even be copy+pasting?

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never got the need for pages in a vector graphics tool. Why do vector images need a page? Do people print them? The whole point for me is that the vector image scales. Mostly there is no pre-defined size. So the page dimensions are meaningless. Why would you want multiple of those?

> Why do vector images need a page? I make slides on Inkscape and until now had to resort to clunky solutions to generate multipage PDF files. > Do people print them? Yes. People print PDFs. > Mostly there is no pre-defined size. So the page dimensions are meaningless. That’s not true if, for example, you need to render vector graphics on a screen. Since it’s physically impossible to show the entire Cartesian plane,…

Interesting, that sounds more like what people used to use desktop publishing software for. Is Inkscape even the right tool for that job? Doesn't sound like it's the core use case for it at least. But cool that it can do it. I'm obviously not a designer or a hard core user of any vector graphics tools. Frankly, Inkscape is a bit intimidating to me.

What I would expect is that you design maybe to have your graphics fit some area (box, circle, whatever), then you save, and then when you use the graphics (on a web page, in a presentation, etc.), you scale it to whatever desired dimensions. While you are editing, you zoom in and out as needed.

Screens are a good example actually. They have different dimensions, pixel densities, aspect ratios, etc. So web design tends to use relative units (em, rem, px, etc.). Also, is a screen a page? Or just a rectangle with some aspect ratio.

Take icons for example. Which is probably a core use case for Inkscape. You'd design some logo to fit square dimensions. And then you'd export bitmaps in various pixel sizes. Does that square have any meaningful dimensions? IMHO it doesn't. Certainly almost never actual paper sizes.

What baffles me as a rather casual user is that when I need to do some vector work for an icon (typically) and the first thing I'm confronted with is paper dimensions.

Re: Inkscape 1.2 released

#230
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a different point of view, I work w/ my designer in Figma, and the collab features are a must-have. Our iterations are much faster in Figma than they would be on static files shipped via PDF, or whatever it would be.

I've worked with designers in tandem as well, sharing screen, sitting next to each other, and in online real-time. Real-time collaboration is a way to collaborate, not the only way.

these folks are in Western Europe, and I'm on PST. So it's all async.
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