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Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

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Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#51

Post by jessegrosjean »

Jcowell wrote: post #49

Is this available on the App Store ? (Not a super big deal if not. Just like to manage all my subscriptions/purchases in one place. So makes updating easier along with the privacy report that makes recommending to friends easier)

It is available here:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bike-outliner/id1588292384?mt=...

Mac App Store version is subscription based. I know many people don't like that, that's why my direct download version is not subscription based... but for Mac App Store upgrades are a pain/impossible. So subscription.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#52

Post by jitl »

Congratulations on the release! It’s cool to see more outliners with multi-item text selection. The “fluid” animations look really delightful — I’m jealous! I know you’ve shared some details about the animation implementation, but I’m curious about how much system stuff you take advantage of. Is your view accessible through VoiceOver? What parts of the Cocoa text system do you use (or, what do you use instead for layout and shaping)? (https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Te...)

I think you started working on this around the time I was working on multi-block text selection in Notion. I remember seeing a preview tweet in a Andy Matuschak thread and thinking “great minds!”. When I started working on it, I was so surprised that no outliner I tested had multi-item text selection! It’s a unique fusion. I’m curious about how you handled deletions across different indent levels… Do you know of any other outliners with it besides Bike and Notion?

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#53

Post by psydvl »

jessegrosjean wrote: post #36
soapdog wrote: post #32

This is a great outliner. I'm quite impressed by how fluid it is. Great work! quick question: why you chose to go with HTML instead of making OPML the default file format? I'm not judging, I'm just curious.

I want more structure in the file format. OPML is perfect for plain text outliners. But if you want to support rich text then you need to encode the HTML as plain text. This means it's all of the sudden harder to process with web tools like xpath. Also (not sure this will happen, but I plan to try) I expect to add different node types. For example right now every node is a paragraph. In future might have ... A HEADIN…

Why not to use markdown formatting?

For example, Dynalist use this idea for their files

And node itself is heading, while when they need paragraph with heading they create _note="" attribute into element

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#54

Post by Leftium »

jessegrosjean wrote: post #3
telesilla wrote: post #2

If this supported multi-user synchronous editing Google-docs style I'd be thrilled.

Sorry that's not likely. I'm a single developer, not ready to run a server. More likely (though still have many more basic features on roadmap) is automatic merging support when a Bike file is stored on something like Dropbox. In fact that would be a pretty great service (for someone else to develop). "Dropbox", but for strutted data (xml, json, whatever) that knows how to merge trees and make use if unique ids. Mayb…

Simplenote survived the Moby Dick workout. It lags a little after paste, and hangs momentarily on redo. It may work better with more structured data. (I used the markdown file in the webapp; didn't test native/mobile versions.)

So https://www.simperium.com/overview/ might be a low-effort option to add syncing without managing your own server.

> - Data transparently moves across mobile, web, and desktop versions of your app

> - Your users can read and write data even when they're offline

> - Multiple users can collaborate with the same data at the same time

> Simperium persists your data for you in buckets... Every Simperium object is JSON data that is stored in a bucket.

> Simperium does some basic conflict resolution for you automatically... When two edits are made for the same field though, Simperium supports automatic resolution for strings (currently) and will merge the two edits together.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#55

Post by [deleted] »

jessegrosjean wrote: post #31
dchest wrote: post #27

Finally! So many outliners think of each node as a separate text field and add node movements on top. This one gets it. Great work, Jesse!

Thanks, that's also a pretty key aspect of Bike. Maybe more important than "fluid animation", but I expect hyping up the fluid animation will get more clicks and people can discover the unconstrained text editor after using it.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#56

Post by Jcowell »

jessegrosjean wrote: post #51
Jcowell wrote: post #49

Is this available on the App Store ? (Not a super big deal if not. Just like to manage all my subscriptions/purchases in one place. So makes updating easier along with the privacy report that makes recommending to friends easier)

It is available here: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bike-outliner/id1588292384?mt=... Mac App Store version is subscription based. I know many people don't like that, that's why my direct download version is not subscription based... but for Mac App Store upgrades are a pain/impossible. So subscription.

This is excellent . When I searched for it on the App Store via “bike” I was unable to find it. I’ll subscribe if it means you can maybe buy App Store ads for keywords like bike for better visibility.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#58

Post by _zzaw »

jessegrosjean wrote: post #51
Jcowell wrote: post #49

Is this available on the App Store ? (Not a super big deal if not. Just like to manage all my subscriptions/purchases in one place. So makes updating easier along with the privacy report that makes recommending to friends easier)

It is available here: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bike-outliner/id1588292384?mt=... Mac App Store version is subscription based. I know many people don't like that, that's why my direct download version is not subscription based... but for Mac App Store upgrades are a pain/impossible. So subscription.

Yeah, I wouldn’t have considered this for a second if it was subscription-only. The pay-once-and-pay-for-upgrades model is very fair; I’d impulse-buy something for $30 once, but I don’t impulse-buy recurring payments.

This is a very cool idea. Might make note-taking a lot easier. I’m looking forward to trying it out.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#59

Post by jessegrosjean »

brailsafe wrote: post #39

I like that you described some of the underlying APIs you used and picked something to try and do well, and it seems like you did. I also like macOS native software. I do struggle to understand the value proposition though. I've been using Bear for outlining, admittedly smallish lists. It's macOS native, supports things like pasting in images, video, markdown, checkboxes, etc.. and is supported by a tiny subscription…

I think Bike is more "tool for thought" than it is tool for notes. It's more like a text editor with some magic features, then it is like a directory of text files.

So value proposition... It's a unique surface for your ideas. The way that it "feels" is important and different than any other app. If that helps you think then Bike might be fore you.

In another comment I said Fluid = Animation... and it does, but there's another aspect of fluid with Bike. If you try most any outliner there are pretty rigid tools. A little hard to explain, but they don't feel "fluid" like a text editor. There are limits and constraints. Bike is different in that it has all the capabilities of an outliner, but it also has all the freedom of a text editor. You can select over multiple lines, cursor moves like a text editor.

Not sure that I've explained that last bit well... but try a good outliner like Workflowy. Then try Bike, beyond the animations (they can be turned off in preferences) Bikes core editing commands feel different.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#60

Post by Void_ »

aosaigh wrote: post #43

This looks cool. I just started using MindNode yesterday [0] which is a similar tool (although it takes a very different approach - it's more visual). I wasn't sure of the effectiveness of these sort of tools as I usually just use text files + Notability sketches but I have to say they are very useful in helping to structure thoughts better. I'm interested to try this. [0] https://www.mindnode.com/

It would be interesting to see MindNode approach applied to PKM-style backlinks like in Reflect [1]. So not only visualize connections between pages, but also the outline inside each page.

[1] https://reflect.app

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