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Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

hogbaysoftware.com

31–40 of 243 posts

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#31
post #27

Finally! So many outliners think of each node as a separate text field and add node movements on top. This one gets it. Great work, Jesse!

Thanks, that's also a pretty key aspect of Bike. Maybe more important than "fluid animation", but I expect hyping up the fluid animation will get more clicks and people can discover the unconstrained text editor after using it.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#36
post #32

This is a great outliner. I'm quite impressed by how fluid it is. Great work! quick question: why you chose to go with HTML instead of making OPML the default file format? I'm not judging, I'm just curious.

I want more structure in the file format. OPML is perfect for plain text outliners. But if you want to support rich text then you need to encode the HTML as plain text. This means it's all of the sudden harder to process with web tools like xpath.

Also (not sure this will happen, but I plan to try) I expect to add different node types. For example right now every node is a paragraph. In future might have ... A HEADING (innovation I know). Again that maps really well to HTML, not as well to OPML.

Plus I just like the fact that .bike files are HTML. Makes me confident that they will live and be readable far into the future.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#38
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry that's not likely. I'm a single developer, not ready to run a server. More likely (though still have many more basic features on roadmap) is automatic merging support when a Bike file is stored on something like Dropbox. In fact that would be a pretty great service (for someone else to develop). "Dropbox", but for strutted data (xml, json, whatever) that knows how to merge trees and make use if unique ids. Mayb…

I think you could encode a “shelf” last-write-wins CRDT into your HTML using data attributes without exploding your file size. You would need to add a data-version attribute, and if you want to support hand-editing or editing by programs that don’t understand the CRDT, a CRC32 or other parity as data-parity so your loader can tell when a user might have edited a row without updating data-version. Shelf is really simp…

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep a reference to this. I will say that it's still unlikely that I tackle this myself anytime soon. I'm a single programmer, and not all that fast at that. Lots of more basic stuff to do on Bike, and iOS version... going to keep me busy for a while.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#39
I like that you described some of the underlying APIs you used and picked something to try and do well, and it seems like you did. I also like macOS native software.

I do struggle to understand the value proposition though. I've been using Bear for outlining, admittedly smallish lists. It's macOS native, supports things like pasting in images, video, markdown, checkboxes, etc.. and is supported by a tiny subscription fee or free. I've never run into performance problems.

Some people just want to work on massive outlines with either text or links and nothing else, move those list items around frequently, and to those people $30 might be cheap. As a product it seems tricky to me, but I'd love to hear from anyone who's the perfect customer, and how this hits the mark for you. As in, what the hell do you plan day-to-day?

Also I quite like the icon, and the nature of it being incredibly simple. In a sense, it reminds me of the first version of IA Writer.

Re: Show HN: Bike – macOS Native Outliner

#40

Workflowy and Logseq already provide these features. Am I missing something?

I'm in Dynalist camp!

Does Dynalist support OPML? Nice thing about OPML is you can be in all camps at once. Or use Dynalist as iOS solution. I'm still looking for best outliner to recommend for Bike files on iOS until I get my act together and make iOS version of Bike.
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