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Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

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Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#251

Post by corderop »

zardinality wrote: post #41
captainmuon wrote: post #22

Does anybody know what the situation is in the rest of China? I hear there are a couple of strict lockdowns in other cities, and some districts of Beijing. China has in the past justified their harsh measures because the relative majority could live without Covid restrictions (and illness and deaths of course). It would be interesting to see what portion of the population is on lockdown, but it is hard to find good s…

I could provide maybe another data point there. I lived at a village in a east province for some months and has just left. People are living their normal life, albeit ofc a slightest bit of concern to Corona. But people are more worried that they could not make money now and in near future than having the virus. They are not fearful of starving either, not like people living in the city, farms and fields are everywhe…

Seems very similar to 2020 Europe (at least Spain)

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#252

Post by twic »

twh270 wrote: post #175
gfodor wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end result of Communism is always the same, but the details vary. It’s fundamentally fragile.

That would get you banned from 95% of Reddit subs. (Kidding, mostly..)

Reddit is ruled by a cabal of "leftists", but of the "progessive" strain, rather than the "tankie" strain. Criticism of China and communism is fine almost everywhere.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#253

Post by [deleted] »

WalterBright wrote: post #214
hueyluey wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it's fundamentally fragile? The soviet union lasted for about 70 years. China has had a unique party for around 70 years (and no signs of ot changing anytime soon). What other types of government are less fragile? I think democracy is more fragile for sure.

The US has lasted well over 200 years.

[deleted]

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#254

Post by aleph_naught »

starky wrote: post #98
whimsicalism wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it's going to take a lot more failure for me to be convinced that averting ~4 million deaths was somehow misguided in the long-term. It's interesting how much American media is trying to convince me otherwise as of the past few months.

The reality at the moment is that practically everyone is going to get Covid at some point, Delta and now Omicron are just too transmissible. The only practical way for their zero Covid policy to work was to shut down all people coming into the country before Omicron arrived. Eventually they are going to have to move to a strategy of managing the virus to minimize the load on their medical system and prevent as many…

> was to shut down all people coming into the country before Omicron arrived.

Even that wouldn't work, there are covid reservoirs among wild animals now (e.g. deer).

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#255

Post by omegaworks »

ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

Maybe people are more important than cars in China.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#256

Post by CogitoCogito »

Kranar wrote: post #244
CogitoCogito wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. Why did you have this idea?

Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance background.

I'm sorry I was a bit unclear. I don't take much issue with "run by engineer types", but really I'd question the assumption that they "were fairly rational". Why do people hold that assumption? Is it because "engineer types" must be rational? Personally I haven't been struck by the rationality of the PRC government.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#257

Post by usrn »

omegaworks wrote: post #255
ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

Maybe people are more important than cars in China.

You can say things like "people are more important than production" and you're technically right, but if you shut down the production all those people starve. When you're talking about things at this scale you have to think with a little more nuance than that.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#258

Post by FooBarWidget »

yakak wrote: post #79
FooBarWidget wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have vaccines. They don't need to get infected to build immunity. But no vaccine, nor natural infection, is good enough to prevent transmission. Just good enough to prevent severe disease. And a few added problems are: - China's health infrastructure is not as advanced. They have very few ICUs per capita. - Vaccines are not mandatory, and many elderly either choose not to get vaccinated out of health concerns, o…

1. Their vaccines are not good and they didn't make mRNA vaccines despite the freedom from royalties for political reasons. 2. Omicron death rate is not as substantially lower as it appears in the west as this is largely explained by previous infection survivor bias, vaccination, and improvements in understanding about care.

1. Vaccine quality is a multifaceted issue. "Not good" really means not good at preventing transmission, compared to mRNA, for the original strain. Since Omicron, all vaccines are "not good" at this. When it comes to preventing severe disease and death, Chinese vaccines work just fine, both for the original strain and for Omicron. It's arguably "less good" in the sense that it requires 3 shots instead of 2, but research has shown that once the 3 shots are reached then efficacy is as good as mRNA. Report on the study: https://www.fridayeveryday.com/boosted-sinovac-as-strong-as-...

So really, the "Chinese vaccines are not good" narrative is an oversimplified and frankly wrong take, perhaps deliberately so.

What's interesting is that nobody talks about vaccine safety. Chinese vaccines, being of the inactivated type, have fewer side effects than mRNA ones. The jury is still out on whether mRNA vaccines are safe long-term. I got two shots of Pfizer and every time I watch dr Campbell's videos I really hope I won't get cancer in 10 years.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#259

Post by aleph_naught »

whimsicalism wrote: post #107
starky wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality at the moment is that practically everyone is going to get Covid at some point, Delta and now Omicron are just too transmissible. The only practical way for their zero Covid policy to work was to shut down all people coming into the country before Omicron arrived. Eventually they are going to have to move to a strategy of managing the virus to minimize the load on their medical system and prevent as many…

Reality aside, there are millions of people in China who are alive today who would not be if they had followed the US' policy. It is far too early to be calling that a failure.

> It is far too early to be calling that a failure.

Any what exactly do you think the end outcome will be when a) it is impossible to stop omicron and b) the CCP isn't ramping up the vaccination effort on the 80+ yr olds?

If live in a tinderbox with frequent lightening strikes, spending billions on firefighting isn't going to change the end result. HK got to 1/3 the US's death rate in __weeks__.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#260

Post by krageon »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #256
Kranar wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance background.

I'm sorry I was a bit unclear. I don't take much issue with "run by engineer types", but really I'd question the assumption that they "were fairly rational". Why do people hold that assumption? Is it because "engineer types" must be rational? Personally I haven't been struck by the rationality of the PRC government.

You cannot get a STEM degree if you are incapable of thinking logically. The same is not true for other degrees. Therefore, it makes sense to connect the two.
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