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Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#151
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, our mirror neurons and empathy aren't made for online communication. On the Internet, we're all psychopaths.

> On the Internet, we're all psychopaths. That might be the best one-line summary of the problems with social media I've ever seen.

Except that it's not. The concept most people don't fully understand here is that of worldview.

On the internet, people often are honest, and say what they really think. This reflects their (often divergent) beliefs about the world.

Again, in the context of meta-discussions like this, most people do not know what a belief is. For example, it does not mean only religious belief. It does not mean "a false idea that someone else has". Beliefs are actually foundational concepts and viewpoints in everyone's brain.

And the most core beliefs are generally reductionist regardless of who you are. Think about looking off into the distance. You can't have an infinite concept of what's out there so it all fades to a point.

A big part of the problem in many of these online conflicts is that the opposing parties are effectively occupying different realities. But even more difficult is that each is 100% certain theirs is the correct version. And even more difficult is the fact that as I said, they don't understand this concept of worldview or realize that no worldview is perfectly accurate. Actually most don't understand the difference between a worldview, a normal viewpoint, and a true fact about the universe.

Even more difficult is the fact that worldviews are closely linked to group identity. So much of the behavior is raw tribalism (trying to protect/promote your own group subconsciously) attached to worldviews, but the people think they are just defending true facts about the world.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means the internet is the better place to be for any person. The problem is usually if one side is not anonymous, then it's different, otherwise anything is fair game in regards to discussions I think, but maybe you find a good counter example.

Not necessarily although there are advantages. While generally taboo, physical violence does have positive effects on Curbing some Behavior

Yeah, however that is not what happens if you just let that behavior described above slide. Punching someone because they said something to you is usually wrong especially if they don't even know each other (so it can't be personal, really).

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#154
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant for real, Dan - like bring down the ban hammer more forcefully. Let's get serious about cleaning up this place.

You seem to be assuming that we don't enforce HN's rules. We do enforce the rules, but only on the posts we see. We don't see every post—there are too many. You, or anyone, can help by flagging posts that break the site guidelines, and in egregious cases by emailing hn@ycombinator.com.

Flagging goes both ways. There's a flagged post in this account's short history where I pushed back on a transphobic comment. Now various comments up from mine and down another branch are all flagged. Transphobic and anti-transphobic comments are all flagged to oblivion.

Probably the hope is that there are more nice people than not-nice people so on the whole the not-nice comments will disappear. From that one experience though it looks like it's at least as much about who's fastest to flag.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#155
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the Internet, we're all psychopaths. That might be the best one-line summary of the problems with social media I've ever seen.

Except that it's not. The concept most people don't fully understand here is that of worldview. On the internet, people often are honest, and say what they really think. This reflects their (often divergent) beliefs about the world. Again, in the context of meta-discussions like this, most people do not know what a belief is. For example, it does not mean only religious belief. It does not mean "a false idea that som…

They still have a point though. I have had some friends, co-workers or acquaintances who from time to time express what there are to me very outlandish opinions, but most of the time I just let them slide or jokingly counter them because I know, that in the great scheme of things it does not matter very much. Had the same opinions being expressed by some faceless person in social media I would have reacted very differently. I dont think of myself as especially different from the average user and the experience using social media reinforces that point.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#156

When I post to HN, I'm not talking, not chatting. I'm posting. Creating a constructed statement to add to a focused discussion. If we chatted, I'm sure it would be a substantially different experience. Also, IRL, I'm not a Capitalist.

This is a great framing: the thing we call "talking" online isn't really the same thing we do when we talk to our friends (or random strangers). It's a lot closer to writing a position piece, except almost nobody writes those for fun (and yet we all love to argue on the Internet!).

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily although there are advantages. While generally taboo, physical violence does have positive effects on Curbing some Behavior

Yeah, however that is not what happens if you just let that behavior described above slide. Punching someone because they said something to you is usually wrong especially if they don't even know each other (so it can't be personal, really).

I've definitely been in a number of situations where what passes for craft and hateful online speech what get someone severely beaten oh, and I don't think that's necessarily A Bad Thing. It's not a solution to the greater problems of society, but a punch to the face or the threat thereof it certainly keeps people from verbally assaulting people in real life.

Of course there are problems with people acting as adjudge and dishing out physical punishment, but that doesn't mean that Justice isn't served in some instances

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#158

On social media, thousands see your post but only a few react. They're the ones that found your post much more interesting than the average person who saw it. In real life, only a few people hear what you say but they feel socially obligated to react in some way. So you get bland, polite reactions. They're the people that, if they'd seen your post on social media, wouldn't have replied at all. In a nutshell: on socia…

> On social media, thousands see your post

That's either wildly optimistic, or most people spend a lot more time building up their online persona than I do.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#159
One factor is the time of day. When I meet people I'm usually busy with work, my thoughts or trying to achieve something else than a good discussion. When I'm online I'm alone, often in the evening, I have plenty of time and space in my head to get interested in arguments, viewpoints, and the experiences of random people I don't know.

I can also use my time effectively online: thanks to the asynchronous element of internet discussions I can find topics and arguments as I please and I can also withdraw from a discussion if I see the thread is going in a direction that won't be interesting. When talking with someone it's much harder. Thus, IRL, good discussions tend to happen with good friends who I can trust to not waste my time, and during specifically allotted time slots when I'm meeting them, and we both also have to be in the mood for a serious conversation.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#160
Most people are often busy, and tired, work, cook, clean, tidy, pension, legal stuff, health stuff, car stuff, children, pay mortgage, pay bills, family, friends, personal activities, problems... Life is complicated and bureaucratic, so not everyone has time to "examine serious things"

Then there are channels to discuss things

Your family will prefer to hear about job, children, partner, dreams, personal activities, achievements... and not about if invading Ukraine, Syria, Iraq... was a smart decision

But there are meetups, for example, where people want to discuss certain subjects, and are prepared to, I wouldn't want to discuss programming with most of my friends

> But what else is there? What's your experience with people online vs in real life? Why do you think this is the case?

People are different everywhere, work, home, family gatherings, alone, with friends, partner...

And online is the same, from real life, and on different websites

Being pseudo anonymous also help you to talk about something that otherwise you would only discuss with a person privately, or not at all, about yourself, or generally controversial

I might not share political stuff on Facebook, to avoid alienate friends that will get annoyed without context or proper discussion, a connection that was made to share mostly personal stuff, not politics. But I can go 'all in' on Reddit or Twitter or other proper channel to discuss those subjects, since I don't care about each person personal feelings and emotions since I don't know them, and either way I am just trying to get specific point across, weather I am right or wrong

If you tell your boss all your personal opinions you will probably be fired soon, or your work might be judged on personal grounds rather than professional, possibly creating a discriminatory environment

In conclusion, everyone disagrees about most things, so avoiding conflict is necessary for a healthy life. You should discuss things with people that want to hear from you about it, are prepared to handle it and give you something in return

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