Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 297 posts

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#101

Post by wctawcta »

alasdair_ wrote: post #66
rixrax wrote: post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

Sonos still has severe limitations and I regret buying two 5.1 setups from them. As a simple example: there is no 7.1 support at all and the Atmos support is a sort of faked 5.1.2 support where the upward firing speakers try to bounce some sounds off the ceiling. Sonos only supports 2.4GHz (no 5GHz support at all) so in a congested area network degradation is a big issue. Codec support is limited as well. For example…

I don't this contradicts the "gone the way of the DSLR market" claim. Sonos and similar systems are simply good enough for most people.

Whether it's TVs, cameras, surround sound systems, we reached a point of diminishing returns by cramming in more pixels or speakers. At that point, you're competing on factors like convenience. There will still be markets for 7.1+ surround sound or DSLR cameras, but they're smaller now.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#102

Post by leokennis »

rob74 wrote: post #95
layer8 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I partly agree. Though once you do have a working setup and know which buttons to press, there isn’t a lot of inconvenience anymore, apart from being bound to the particular room. The problem for the industry is more that an important target group for them are A/V nerds who are never satisfied for long with their setup and are always looking for the next best thing to upgrade to, and which also serve as a multiplicat…

That's the problem though - the people who treat "listening to music" as an activity of its own are getting fewer and fewer. I listen to a lot of music, but I mostly do it while commuting, while programming etc., not in the living room. I even have a good old stereo that's served me well for over 20 years now (Sony, not Onkyo), but it mostly only serves as better PC speakers nowadays. I still play a CD on it occasion…

I think “listening to music as an activity” and “buying, tweaking and upgrading expensive audio setups” are two separate activities that often overlap but do not require each other. As an example, I fiercely enjoy sitting on my couch with my eyes closed listening to full albums of the White Stripes or Stars of the Lid or Boards of Canada or Sufjan Stevens on my AirPods Max, streamed via Bluetooth from my iPhone. Every audiophile would laugh in my face because of the poor hifi choices I’m making.

But I’m damn sure I’m really attentively listening to the music.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#103

Post by CamperBob2 »

ananonymoususer wrote: post #60
codefreeordie wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been talking about the "Japan [central bank] Model" as a model of success for much longer than two years. This meme first got really big in central-banking circles after the 2008 crash. Japan has been following this model for 35-40 years of managed-decline. The US has been toying with the same model for more like 10-15 years than 2-3 suggested above. The US so far has managed its decline better, but not fo…

Managing decline is not a plan for survival. No matter what you think of Trump, this was one of his primary policy issues, and is the basis for the "Make America Great Again" slogan.

Managing decline is not a plan for survival.

And revanchism is? What Trump was trying to make happen "again" wasn't all that great the first time, except for those at the very top.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#104

Post by leokennis »

alasdair_ wrote: post #66
rixrax wrote: post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

Sonos still has severe limitations and I regret buying two 5.1 setups from them. As a simple example: there is no 7.1 support at all and the Atmos support is a sort of faked 5.1.2 support where the upward firing speakers try to bounce some sounds off the ceiling. Sonos only supports 2.4GHz (no 5GHz support at all) so in a congested area network degradation is a big issue. Codec support is limited as well. For example…

Wait Sonos is 2.4Ghz only?

Even my cheapo digital photo frame and my “need to make it cheap to turn a profit” ereader work on 5Ghz…

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#105

Post by christoph »

chmod600 wrote: post #77

There's no doubt that, for a lot of people, there is just a better convenience/quality trade-off. I had a good size Onkyo system for watching movies and I configured it meticulously. But it's hard to explain to others why there is so much ceremony and bulk, especially when watching habits degenerate from immersive movies to binge watching netflix serieses. Part of the experience with hobbies is some kind of sacrifice…

Weirdly in the last couple of weeks we’ve been clearing out our house and I found three(!) Onkyo home cinema amp boxes in the attic. I don’t own a single Onkyo amplifier anymore. Every single one got returned due to a serious fault (from suddenly producing no sound, to literal smoke coming out of it) within a year or 18 months, and typically swapped for another, slightly newer model Onkyo amp - rinse & repeat yearly. Their hardware from my experience was utter garbage. It had great features and UI, but literally went up in a puff of smoke on an annual basis. After three or four cycles I got fed up and changed to Yamaha. Unplugging a load of HDMI cables, speaker cables, re-running audio calibration, etc. is not something you enjoy repeating on an annual basis. I was always glad Richer Sounds (in the UK) have an unbelievably good returns policy. Even loaning me another amp FOC for a couple of months while Onkyo tried to repair one of them for me, before they gave up and just sent me a whole new higher end amp, free of charge.

I’ve got two Yamaha amps, both at least 3+ years old which have never had a single fault. I’ve also got a Denon home cinema amp, just over two years old which has never had an issue. To be honest I’m surprised they were still in business, as it never seemed from home cinema forums that my story was that unique.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#106

Post by chmod600 »

layer8 wrote: post #84
chmod600 wrote: post #77

There's no doubt that, for a lot of people, there is just a better convenience/quality trade-off. I had a good size Onkyo system for watching movies and I configured it meticulously. But it's hard to explain to others why there is so much ceremony and bulk, especially when watching habits degenerate from immersive movies to binge watching netflix serieses. Part of the experience with hobbies is some kind of sacrifice…

I partly agree. Though once you do have a working setup and know which buttons to press, there isn’t a lot of inconvenience anymore, apart from being bound to the particular room. The problem for the industry is more that an important target group for them are A/V nerds who are never satisfied for long with their setup and are always looking for the next best thing to upgrade to, and which also serve as a multiplicat…

"Though once you do have a working setup ..."

Yeah, I kept telling myself that, and it was true most of the time. But any time you need to add something (video game system brought by a friend, whatever), or some new tech comes along, it throws everything off. And sometimes you have to move, and it doesn't really work out as well in the new place.

"And [AV nerds] are becoming fewer and fewer."

Isn't that related to my point though? When convenient products get good enough to take the magic out of a hobby, where do the new recruits come from?

A big driver for a hobby is being able to say (to yourself at least) that what you're doing is somehow better than what a layperson with a big wallet can do. That you're "the guy/gal" when it comes to this topic, perhaps surpassed by others who've also invested time.

Thinking out loud... This is probably some kind of deep rooted social need for specialization/role in a tribe that gives a sense of importance. We have jobs, which are highly specialized, but nobody in our social circle really cares unless they have a very similar job.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#107

Post by layer8 »

akmarinov wrote: post #12

This isn’t big news, the actual “Onkyo” that consumers know will carry on, the Bankruptcy is the remains of the company that had already sold off the hardware divisions. “The company sold its core home audiovisual business to Sharp and U.S.-based Voxx International and its earphones and headphones business to an investment fund, both in September. A joint venture between Sharp and Voxx is expected to continue using t…

> the actual “Onkyo” that consumers know will carry on

I’m not so sure. The mainstream market (by that I mean excluding expensive “high-end” brands like NAD) can’t support a lot of independently designed products. In the AVR mainstream market there’s currently Denon/Marantz, Onkyo/Pioneer, Sony, and Yamaha (did I miss any?). There’s bound to occur more consolidation if the market keeps shrinking. The brands may continue to exist, but sharing the internals with other brands.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#108

Post by otterley »

layer8 wrote: post #92

One reason I stopped buying Onkyo AVRs is that they don’t have a good room correction system like e.g. Audyssey or Dirac. Edit: Apparently Onkyo caught up at some point, but at the time I switched away from them they were lagging behind regarding room correction.

Oh wow! I had an Onkyo AVR that did have Audyssey (TX-SR508), but I guess they stopped putting it into later models awhile ago. They replaced it with something called AccuEQ which some reviewers say works just fine.

I personally switched over to Denon AVRs when it became time to upgrade.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#109

Post by erichocean »

Hamuko wrote: post #43
guardiangod wrote: post #29

They screwed up their receivers circuit board from 2009 to 2015 ish. All their receivers would fail after 5 years and Onkyo did a massive recall campaign to replace the main circuit board (with all the amps attached.) That must have costed them.

I have one of those receivers, but unfortunately it failed after the recall period ended.

Same. Bought a Pioneer Elite to replace it.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#110

Post by thaway2839 »

chmod600 wrote: post #77

There's no doubt that, for a lot of people, there is just a better convenience/quality trade-off. I had a good size Onkyo system for watching movies and I configured it meticulously. But it's hard to explain to others why there is so much ceremony and bulk, especially when watching habits degenerate from immersive movies to binge watching netflix serieses. Part of the experience with hobbies is some kind of sacrifice…

I think this is increasingly true of us as a society. We have been consistently elevating "ease of use" over every other objective and/or subjective quality.

We've reached the point where easier is better, even if it is objectively worse.

We are all settling for local maximum that are significantly lower than several other maxima because apparently making the effort to move further along the x-axis is now almost considered the worst thing one can do.

Post reply on HN