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Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

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Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been talking about the "Japan [central bank] Model" as a model of success for much longer than two years. This meme first got really big in central-banking circles after the 2008 crash. Japan has been following this model for 35-40 years of managed-decline. The US has been toying with the same model for more like 10-15 years than 2-3 suggested above. The US so far has managed its decline better, but not fo…

Managing decline is not a plan for survival. No matter what you think of Trump, this was one of his primary policy issues, and is the basis for the "Make America Great Again" slogan.

The creedo has a more specific and probably incorrect message: " we are broken, we need to be fixed. (Implied) I'll fix things". It's easy to attract conservative minded people as a rally cry to your cause when you reach for a nostalgic rhetoric about "the good ol' days" fallacy. Much divergent from the often left leaning "we can build a better future" which should probably also be considered a fallacy.

Back on topic, I don't think the electioneering slogan had any actual policy significance.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#73
post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

Pretty much this. Places like Parts-express have been creeping more upmarket with their own brands like Dayton Audio to fill some of the gap, but they are still more downmarket hobbyist niche and probably won't ever be in mass market stores. The same thing that happened to cameras being replaced by good enough phones happened to stereos, just with soundbar/box type appliances.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#74
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it refers to Tokyo’s To such as in Toshiba. You mean it refers to "east"?

No, it’s an abbreviation of Tokyo. Even if To means East - in a compound To often stands for Tokyo. Same concept in these words: 来日 - Nichi means day, here it stands for Japan. Here’s an article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_abbreviated_and_contr... More examples: Todai (To for Tokyo), Nissan (Ni for Nippon)

Does this apply to Toyota as well?

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#75
post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

It all comes down to demand I guess... Most people seem to like Beats headphones or think their Airpods have top quality sound and don't care that $200 headphones exist that blow them out of the water. Most people use bluetooth with low quality codecs that distort the sound. In addition, most people listen to their music on streaming services that compress the heck out of tracks that are already heavily (dynamic range) compressed. So it's a case of (a) people never having been exposed to "hi-fi" and (b) people ceasing to care/being willing to sacrifice audio quality (which is heavily subjective anyway) for convenience. So it is the same as phone cameras, people are willing to sacrifice image quality and control for the convenience of having a camera in their pocket all the time.

I personally care about audio to a reasonable degree, but I also think that AVRs in their current form are a weird mix of "too much" and "not enough". I wanted to have a 5.1.2 system that wasn't a soundbar with tiny, tinny speakers that bounce off the ceiling and a tiny sub that moves hardly any air. But in order to drive decent speakers you need a decent amp. But in order to get a decent amp you have to buy a unit that has a million connectors, spatial audio processing, etc. Out of the gigantic array of connectors on the back of my AVR, (7 HDMI ports, phono plugs, component, composite) I am currently using 3 HDMI ports because I play most media off an HTPC anyway. I feel like I'm using less than 30% of what it has to offer, and there is a growing divide between people who want convenience and people who want uncompromising quality at any cost, so low end AVRs aren't much better than a soundbar, and high end AVRs aren't affordable for the average consumer.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#76

This isn’t big news, the actual “Onkyo” that consumers know will carry on, the Bankruptcy is the remains of the company that had already sold off the hardware divisions. “The company sold its core home audiovisual business to Sharp and U.S.-based Voxx International and its earphones and headphones business to an investment fund, both in September. A joint venture between Sharp and Voxx is expected to continue using t…

Bankruptcy in Japan doesn't work the way it does in the West - it's pretty much a death sentence commercially in Japan. The brand will never be used again and the assets will be liquidated. The loss of face and reputation makes it very different.

But doesn't the brand itself have value outside of Japan? When liquidating the company, why not license it to another manufacturer?

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#77
There's no doubt that, for a lot of people, there is just a better convenience/quality trade-off. I had a good size Onkyo system for watching movies and I configured it meticulously. But it's hard to explain to others why there is so much ceremony and bulk, especially when watching habits degenerate from immersive movies to binge watching netflix serieses.

Part of the experience with hobbies is some kind of sacrifice along with the reward. The drive towards convenience takes away that sacrifice and makes me appreciate something a little less.

It's like takeout and boxed wine, wearing a T-shirt; versus dressing up a bit, making a nice meal, and opening a bottle from a winery you visited. The former is ovjectively good and convenient, and all of the latter ceremony is a hassle that provides little benefit (you probably can't tell the boxed wine apart in a blind test).

But... aren't we happier with the latter experience?

I'm too lazy to "waste" time on that kind of happiness though. That's the sad part.

I think if I'm motivated by others it's different. For instance, stuff like surfing/snowsports requires a significant hassle, and it's a lot easier to find people who will put up with that hassle.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true -- though the expectations we have for audio equipment has changed in ways that make what Onkyo was really good at less important.

The switch to little bitty teeny tiny speakers just makes me sad. I miss my towers with multiple drivers and crossovers accordingly.

[Edit] (large format) ,[/] Surround American made monitors designed by the Pet Sounds engineer Alan Sides.

https://oceanwayaudio.com/as-the-sea-level-rises-for-immersi...

British (also available in consumer version and pretty finishing): ATC SCM150

https://atc.audio/hi-fi/loudspeakers/classic-series/scm150/

American: JBL M2 https://jblpro.com/products/m2

(Or just buy JBL commercial theater smaller models like many installers do)

German: Neumann KH420 https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-420

Yamaha NS-5000 https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/speaker_s...

All these cost about thirty thousand dollars including appropriate amplification and tax before installation. I make this a loss leader run by all the industry for labor and materials only. Every one is a halo product and worthy of that description.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#79
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many modern receivers support both Chromecast and Airplay, as well as some level of HomeKit / Google Home / Alexa integration. I think for Onkyo, they just fell in an awkward middle. Not as high end as Denon/Marantz/etc. and not as cheap as . Combined with the drastic decrease in people "needing" receivers and speakers (many people now just get a sound bar, or Bluetooth speakers) and the market squeezed them.

The middle of the market is actually all messy generally these days. The very high end wants systems that feel like current systems, but if you want something in the middle, you don't actually really want the awkwardness associated with having an audio system today. A system of passive speakers, an amplifier or two, and the complexities of the user interface (I can't hear the TV, which of these three remotes do I nee…

I always felt like it was a battle for control of the user interface.

When the system was audio-dominant, the receiver made sense to put in control. The TV audio was one source among many, and most of the functionality was in front-panel buttons.

When it became video-centric instead, we started putting the TV in the centre of the experience-- plugging devices directly into it and using its menus to control switching. The problem there is that anything cool the AVR could do by being aware of different inputs is lost (I'm picturing per-input volume controls, for example). There's not really a great way to get them to communicate-- CEC is limited, I've seen AVRs that do on-screen display and wish I hadn't seen it, and the only way I can imagine it working would be a single brand-based propriatery interface where all the parts could cooperate.

The one I find weird is the soundbar angle. It's not going to be anywhere near as good as all but the worst free-standing speakers, due to size and positioning limits, but it's still introducing cost and complexity. Bluetooth speakers, at least you could put them in a good place for the room. I assume they trade mostly on what they used to call "Wife Acceptance Factor"

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