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Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

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Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#141
post #128
post #118

I take a half tablet (10mg) of Xanax every once in awhile. (Maybe once a month on average). It makes me feel so relaxed. I knew it was too good to be true.

I take 5mg about once a week which I thought was pretty harmless :(

You’re not taking high doses every day, which is what the article is about.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had some anxiety issues in France and a doctor that I met with (who I had trouble speaking to) prescribed daily benzos for a month. Towards the end of the month it felt like my body NEEDED the pills. It was scary.

Your brain chemistry acclimates to using a GABA agonist every day and will get out of whack if you stop taking it :( like anxiety will be WAY WORSE when going through withdrawal. I still use a benzo (lowest dose lamictal) but only about once a month when I need hit the panic button. It's really not meant to be a daily use drug, scared me when a friend was prescribed it as a daily medication.

Lamictal is not a benzo and must be used consistently (daily) to prevent SJS as it requires titration. Generally, those who need it (epileptic patients or those with bipolar disorder) must use it for the duration of their life.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of people going through withdrawals after just a single week of use. Nuts that it's sold as a supplement at all. Interestingly enough, a suspected GABA prodrug that supposedly passes the blood-brain barrier called picamilon has been banned by the FDA, yet phenibut is still on shelves.

picamilon is banned? That's dumb, soon they will ban l-theanine and taurine? I really don't think you can get addicted to picamillon like phen or benz

The FDA's argument is that it isn't a naturally occurring substance like an amino acid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picamilon#Regulation

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#144
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take a benzo ICE as needed, but was on them for a while and never really noticed degenerative affects though I’m young though. Should I be worried?

From the article: > When diazepam medication was stopped, the effects lingered for a while but were eventually reversed. I think you’ll be okay.

That’s good, I’m conflicted because they’ve helped me but they are nasty little drugs. I’ve only ever been prescribed would never take them recreationally.

I was on them daily for a while and eventually, even though I never really worried or got anxious, other emotions where muted as well. I felt like I didn’t need it anymore and my doctor didn’t tapper me off them correctly so for two weeks strait I barely slept and had terrible withdrawal symptoms. Having them ICE is nice but I would never recommend them to people to take daily they are just to intense.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had some anxiety issues in France and a doctor that I met with (who I had trouble speaking to) prescribed daily benzos for a month. Towards the end of the month it felt like my body NEEDED the pills. It was scary.

Your brain chemistry acclimates to using a GABA agonist every day and will get out of whack if you stop taking it :( like anxiety will be WAY WORSE when going through withdrawal. I still use a benzo (lowest dose lamictal) but only about once a month when I need hit the panic button. It's really not meant to be a daily use drug, scared me when a friend was prescribed it as a daily medication.

Lamictal is an anticonvulsant, not a benzo. I take it daily as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#146
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the common legal drugs, benzos are by far the most dangerous to quit. And you get addicted in like a week. Be very careful.

> Of the common legal drugs, benzos are by far the most dangerous to quit. Not sure if that's right. Alcohol withdraw can actually kill you.

They're the same withdrawal... Benzos are just far more potent, so the dependence can happen MUCH faster, in like days.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can't have ADHD, if you had ADHD, you could not have driven here for an hour" -- real thing that happened to someone I know.

This is a exactly the kind of puritanical catch-22 that entrenches every corner ADHD treatment. “Oh, your justification for access to the high-inducing , party drug of amphetamine is that it’ll cure your lack of focus? Well, if these dangerously addictive drugs so effective, then surely you can handle 30 day prescriptions with no refills.” God forbid your prescription runs out on a weekend or holiday when your doctor…

100% this. The worst part about ADHD treatment is all the disruptions of care to prevent people trying to abuse it. I personally don't give a rat's ass if people want to take adderall to go out and party or masturbate either. They'd probably have fun with less negative health effects or risk of fights/belligerence compared to alcohol...

But for some reason the government (the FDA) and medical field in general cares about abuse a lot. In the past few weeks, Cerebral got labelled a pill mill by the FDA/execs and as a result almost all ADHD telemedicine patients are having a hard time getting prescriptions filled. Sending a prescription to multiple places sequentially (because they keep refusing to fill it) or calling a pharmacy in advance to ask if they'd fill the prescription runs the risk of being labelled a drug seeker, and any power-tripping retail pharmacist - who doesn't know anything about you at all - can just refuse to fill your prescription if they want. Asking your provider for a higher dose is also anxiety-inducing for similar reasons.

The worst part is, people with ADHD still build a dependence/tolerance on amphetamines/methylphenidate. So running out of your medicine is really disruptive - not only do your symptoms go untreated, but they become worse than they'd be if you were unmedicated for a long interval, plus you have to deal with things like not feeling fully awake, being hungrier, lethargic, sleeping more while your body adjusts back to being unmedicated. But for some reason that's acceptable as long as we prevent people from taking amphetamines for fun.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#148
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I can attest to the surprising efficacy of alpha blockers. I have used prazosin as a sleep aid for the last decade, a few times a month. There were some limited studies that suggest it is effective in helping sleep quality in people with nightmares and PTSD. Now, I don't have PTSD, but I do have a mind that will not shut off at night, running in useless circles that jolt me back awake. It does nothing fo…

Propranolol is very commonly prescribed for anxiety in the UK. I take it as needed and it works wonders, but it does make me a bit lethargic. It doesn't completely eliminate the low level anxiety but it stops it ending up in a viscous panic cycle.

Widely used for anxiety in my country as well but not an optimal choice due to the cardiovascular effects. As you noted, it can cause fatigue.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#149

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons. I don't care how safe the doctors say they are; they aren't. Period.

Do you ever wonder if maybe something about your situation might be different from most other people prescribed benzos? For example, the concurrent phenibut use.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anyone curious about phenibut: Don't. Just don't. Please. Just a few weeks of usage can cause dependence. It is notorious for causing compulsive redosing. Withdrawal can make you unable to sleep for days, with lingering effects like panic attacks and anhedonia for weeks and weeks. Withdrawal from larger quantities can cause auditory and visual hallucinations and seizures and can even KILL you. Avoiding serious sym…

Well that's frightening. I tried it out recently and didn't really feel anything that would get me hooked on it but maybe that's naive.

My advice: Don't underestimate the substance, but also don't give too much importance to stories of people that overdid it and had a terrible time. People have been using Phenibut for long periods of time without getting dependent -- provided they space out the "Phenibut days" enough. Of course that requires some self-knowledge: If you are the kind of person who would have trouble keeping it to "not more than twice a week maximum (ideally not more than once a week) at reasonable dosages", then Phenibut can easily turn into a slippery slope to physical dependence, with horrible withdrawals.

If you know yourself enough not to overdo it, it's not _that_ terrible a thing; though your individual response to it will of course vary, which is where the "self-knowledge" comes in again.

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