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Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

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Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#91

Post by cameronh90 »

retrac wrote: post #75
SemanticStrengh wrote: post #45

The world of medecine is degenerate. Sustainable, non addictive and non neurotoxic anxiolytics exists: the #1 being opipramol the sigmaergic. emoxypine (which btw cure hangover) and guanfacine are worth mentioning. Maybe beta blockers to some extent. NMDA antagonists such as memantine have side effects but are not neurotoxic to my knowledge and there are milder ones such as mg-lthreonate. afobazole is interesting but…

Anecdotally, I can attest to the surprising efficacy of alpha blockers. I have used prazosin as a sleep aid for the last decade, a few times a month. There were some limited studies that suggest it is effective in helping sleep quality in people with nightmares and PTSD. Now, I don't have PTSD, but I do have a mind that will not shut off at night, running in useless circles that jolt me back awake. It does nothing fo…

Propranolol is very commonly prescribed for anxiety in the UK. I take it as needed and it works wonders, but it does make me a bit lethargic. It doesn't completely eliminate the low level anxiety but it stops it ending up in a viscous panic cycle.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#92

Post by jotm »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #6

The reality is many drugs have long term effects, we just can't see them yet. But if you are close to someone who is a user, over the long run you will notice differences. Sometimes its just that they don't have the same spark. Regardless, 100 years down the line we will look back in horror at the state of pharmaceutical drugs. All it takes is going to a doctor, saying you have anxiety, and the doctor pops out a scri…

If you look closer at others, you'll notice they have a new spark. But "new medication" won't be your first thought.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#93

Post by cycomanic »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #9
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that many doctors these days will not prescribe large amounts of benzos, certainly not just willy nilly.

I'm not just talking about benzos, but also anti psychotics, amphetamines, statins, and basically the whole gamut. My brother is a pharmacist, and is constantly shocked by the prescriptions that healthy people bring in to get filled. The medical field has been unjustly given too much prestige.

I believe blaming this on doctors only is way to easy. I believe many people demand medication when they go to the doctor. If they go because of a cold they don't accept being told to rest for a week, but demand antibiotics, if they feel depressed they don't want to be told to exercise, but want a quick medication etc.. I definitely see this since coming to Sweden, where it's difficult for doctors to prescribe antibiotics and lots of expats complain that they went to the doctor and were told to rest for a week. They feel they are not taken seriously if they don't get medication (that is not to say that there are no problems with how healthcare is done here, but restrictive prescriptions of antibiotics is not one of them).

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#94

Post by kayodelycaon »

This doesn’t surprise me. I have Klonopin for as needed use. (Since early 2019, I’ve used 106 0.5mg pills, so not a significant amount.)

Being bipolar, I find they are necessary for suitations my regular medication and coping mechanisms can’t handle. Without them, living a normal life would be difficult.

That said… benzos scare me. Taking one pill will calm me today, but at the expense for increased anxiety the next two.

If I go to a convention, I’ll have ramped up to my max dose around the second or third day. After that, it becomes less effective because I can’t (and won’t) increase it more. I’ve only gone five days at most and by the fifth day, my anxiety is the same it would be without medication. Coming off that afterwards is brutal.

If I had another effective option, I would use it. I’ve tried very hard to “power through” my symptoms or find alternatives during my first year being diagnosed. My psychiatrist, therapist, and friends had to just about physically slap me to use them.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#95

Post by Fargoan »

jotm wrote: post #85
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

Wow, 1. who tf gave you phenibut before gabapentin/pregabalin? Phenibut is notoriously hard to quit. It takes at least a few weeks of gradual tapering down. 2. Together with a benzodiazepine? Wew, lad. Should've also taken a few shots of vodka before sleep for the insanity trifecta. Edit: sorry, I always assume other people have access to medication. I don't so I shouldn't have laughed. Yeah, so there are a few gabap…

He probably gave himself phenibut. It's not a prescription drug. You can just buy it online.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#96

Post by entropie »

77pt77 wrote: post #78
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

Of the common legal drugs, benzos are by far the most dangerous to quit. And you get addicted in like a week. Be very careful.

> Of the common legal drugs, benzos are by far the most dangerous to quit.

Not sure if that's right. Alcohol withdraw can actually kill you.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#97

Post by natly »

cameronh90 wrote: post #71
natly wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend working out, it helped me a ton with anxiety. It basically cured it (I don't work out much anymore but a short intense few months of hard workouts seems to have almost removed it from my system years afterwards).

Interestingly working out is a trigger for my anxiety. I'm currently trying graded exposure therapy for exercise, but so far it's not working.

This was the case for me too! :) I really hated running at the start because it triggered anxiety. In the end it turned out to be a blessing because it provided me with basically a safe (not socially connected etc) way to activate it at my own comfort and degree I was comfortable with and basically feel like my twisted up brain connections got smoothed out by doing it for a while. (Basically exposure therapy as you mention.) Lions mane may have been part of helping too but idk.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#98

Post by jotm »

glerk wrote: post #19

Benzos are pretty terrible drugs in general. The physical addiction potential and withdrawal people are going through are enough to dissuade me from touching them. For folks dealing with anxiety, I recommend trying propranolol. It is not as powerful, but sometimes it is enough to achieve the desired effect and the side effects are way less severe.

Most drugs that actually work are terrible. If you're gonna abuse stimulants for relaxation, it's obvious to everyone but you that it will be a very bad time, for example.

That said, the recommended dosages are basically bullshit. For anything, I'd say take 1/2 or 1/3 of what they recommend in the first few days/weeks and taper up.

But please use your own brain when taking advice from strangers.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#99

Post by phenthrowAway »

shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

To anyone curious about phenibut:

Don't. Just don't. Please.

Just a few weeks of usage can cause dependence. It is notorious for causing compulsive redosing. Withdrawal can make you unable to sleep for days, with lingering effects like panic attacks and anhedonia for weeks and weeks. Withdrawal from larger quantities can cause auditory and visual hallucinations and seizures and can even KILL you. Avoiding serious symptoms requires an excruciating taper that can take months. The effects of long term abuse are poorly understood.

"But it's totally legal, and with responsible dosing can be a potent nootropic. I'm not a drug addict, I'm a biohacker. I'm not after a high."

Yeah, That was my thinking too, and in hindsight that was immensely stupid. Please just look at r/quittingphenibut before doing anything.

Be kind to your GABA receptors.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#100

Post by yata69420 »

tptacek wrote: post #77
rhexs wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sort of a sad indictment of our system, but odds are the pharmacist sees the patient far more than the psychiatrist does.

I have literally never had a discussion with a pharmacist. I drive up, hand them my script through the drawer thingy, and they hand me back my drugs. In fact, in the last couple years, I barely even do that anymore; our doctors just call in our scripts, and we get a text message when it's time to pick them up, and that's that. The idea that pharmacists have any meaningful diagnostic role in the US is risible.

I always hear about these community pharmacists that consult with patients about medical issues, but I'm yet to meet one myself.

I suspect pharmacists are the only people that some class of Americans can speak to about medical issues because they have an open storefront.

I don't know what pharmacists know about drugs, but they're useful people to speak to about insurance issues. They know the rules around age cutoffs for optional vaccines, which generics are in stock, when something will be denied by insurance, etc.

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