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Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

advisorybikelanes.com

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Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#51

Post by alephxyz »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #9

I recently did a few consecutive full day bicycle trips around the Netherlands and rode on many roads like this. I felt safe and drivers were respectful and patient when passing. I would never ride on one of these in the US. I can already imagine the Amazon delivery van or work truck parked in the bicycle section, forcing me into the center. I can also imagine the impatient drivers accelerating way beyond the speed l…

Seriously. I'm in Canada but I regularly see drivers cut through bike lanes to get in and out of parking lots without checking for bikes, or turn through a bike lane at an intersection without checking their blind spots. Even seen someone drive over a concrete curb and on a protected bike lane to get around a slow moving garbage truck.

I never feel safe on shared streets unless there's a physical barrier between cars and other road users. It only takes half a second of distraction for a driver to ruin your day, or worse.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#52

Post by dqv »

wyager wrote: post #43
calderra wrote: post #31

ITT: People who've never done any research on this issue making very American conclusions. Confusion about how these roads work is actually good. It may seem paradoxical at first, but easy to understand roads with ample signage actually breed high speeds, congestion, complacency, and dead pedestrians. Many dangerous intersections have found that removing signage and leaving it up to drivers drastically reduces speeds…

There exist optimization criteria besides "reduce the number of deaths". In particular, the enjoyment of drivers is an important optimization criterion.

>In particular, the enjoyment of drivers is an important optimization criterion.

Yeah but it's not (it shouldn't be) important for every road. And that's the point. We want roads that drivers prefer for "enjoyment" (I have never enjoyed driving a vehicle) and roads that optimize for bicycle rider and pedestrian enjoyment. The drivers can stay on the driver roads and bicycle riders and pedestrians can stay on the bicycle and pedestrian roads.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#53

Post by rufus_foreman »

notatoad wrote: post #18
blamazon wrote: post #6

This is basically a paint manifestation of the "share the road" idea which is already common policy in North America on bidirectional roads without a bike lane. It is darkly amusing to see a lot of motorists being upset by finally seeing this arrangement in a format they can understand - dashed and solid painted lines.

the only reason the "share the road" signage is accepted in america is because drivers interpret it to mean that cyclists should give way to motorists. "other road users should share with me" rather than "i need to share with other road users" try going to a community meeting and suggesting that a "share the road" sign be replaced with a "cyclists may use full lane" sign and see how much pushback you get.

My experience has been the opposite of yours. In the last city I lived in they had "sharrows" on some of the streets, and cyclists would get angry when people drove on those streets. Apparently when cyclists suggest that you share something with them, they mean they get to use it and you don't, which isn't my understanding of the term.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#54

Post by mwattsun »

calderra wrote: post #31

ITT: People who've never done any research on this issue making very American conclusions. Confusion about how these roads work is actually good. It may seem paradoxical at first, but easy to understand roads with ample signage actually breed high speeds, congestion, complacency, and dead pedestrians. Many dangerous intersections have found that removing signage and leaving it up to drivers drastically reduces speeds…

> ITT: People who've never done any research on this issue making very American conclusions

As an American, it could be that I've experienced and heard of active hostility to bicyclists. It seems like a uniquely stupid American thing. I'm sorry if this is also the case in Europe.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#55

Post by californical »

alistairSH wrote: post #29
b3morales wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the picture, I don't see a big difference between this and the "painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from". Is it the single center motorized lane that is the important distinction?

Yes. Except given American drivers insistence on their own primacy and infallibility on the road, I can’t envision an edge lane working. The main road closest to my house was recently (3 years ago) re-striped from two lanes each direction to 1 lane + bike lane. Car frequently ignore the bike markings and simply use the bike lane for aggressive passing of vehicles going the speed limit. I damn near got run down from b…

All you need is a curb or even small cement blocks with a marker every 50ft, and no cars are going to drive in that bike lane anymore

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#56

Post by occz »

californical wrote: post #55
alistairSH wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Except given American drivers insistence on their own primacy and infallibility on the road, I can’t envision an edge lane working. The main road closest to my house was recently (3 years ago) re-striped from two lanes each direction to 1 lane + bike lane. Car frequently ignore the bike markings and simply use the bike lane for aggressive passing of vehicles going the speed limit. I damn near got run down from b…

All you need is a curb or even small cement blocks with a marker every 50ft, and no cars are going to drive in that bike lane anymore

This design kind of relies on there only being painted edge lanes, as drivers are expected to yield out to these edge lanes when encountering cars from the opposite direction.

Unless I've fundamentally misunderstood the concept.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#57

Post by samatman »

Freak_NL wrote: post #12

> This roadway configuration originated in the Netherlands where they have over 50 years and many hundreds of road-kilometers of experience with this facility. Well yeah, but we use this specific configuration with the shared centre lane only on the lowest tier of rural roads where traffic is limited and the speed limit is 60 km/h (roughly 40 mph), and some select urban streets where they act as a traffic calming mea…

As an American it was immediately clear to me the sort of road this website is suggesting we replace with edge lane roads. They are two lane, dotted-white divided, and limited to 45mph. Very common rural and exurban pattern.

This might not have been as clear outside of the North American context.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#58

Post by zabzonk »

Freak_NL wrote: post #12

> This roadway configuration originated in the Netherlands where they have over 50 years and many hundreds of road-kilometers of experience with this facility. Well yeah, but we use this specific configuration with the shared centre lane only on the lowest tier of rural roads where traffic is limited and the speed limit is 60 km/h (roughly 40 mph), and some select urban streets where they act as a traffic calming mea…

I used to work in Utrecht in the Netherlands as a contractor (doing Delphi progamming,me based the UK) and I can safely say that the bikes used to terrify me far more than the cars did, as the NL has some of the worst gridlock in Europe, so you can walk faster than the cars, even on motorways. The bikes used to sneak up on you.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#59

Post by cowmoo728 »

calderra wrote: post #31

ITT: People who've never done any research on this issue making very American conclusions. Confusion about how these roads work is actually good. It may seem paradoxical at first, but easy to understand roads with ample signage actually breed high speeds, congestion, complacency, and dead pedestrians. Many dangerous intersections have found that removing signage and leaving it up to drivers drastically reduces speeds…

I enjoyed riding on this style of road near Amsterdam. It struck me as a very efficient use of space for roads that don't experience high volume traffic on a regular basis. Drivers naturally slowed down and waited their turn to pass when they saw cyclists and oncoming traffic. It made me wish that things like this would exist in the US.

But again, all of my experience riding in the US tells me that this style of road is a terrible idea without two prerequisites:

1. significant increase in difficulty of obtaining a license

2. enforcement of penalties when drivers murder cyclists and pedestrians

The number of times that people have dangerously cut through a bike lane, done high speed close passes, swerved and accelerated into incoming traffic to do a dangerous pass while going 20mph over the speed limit, randomly pulling over to park directly in front of me in a no parking zone in the bike lane, etc, that I have seen in the US, makes me dread this kind of road.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#60

Post by blamazon »

b3morales wrote: post #22
blamazon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When faced with uncertainty, car drivers tend to slow down. That's the general advantage here. It's not better than a properly separated bike path, but it is better than a painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from.

Based on the picture, I don't see a big difference between this and the "painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from". Is it the single center motorized lane that is the important distinction?

I agree that paint alone is not bicycle infrastructure.

But, when comparing paint with paint, this will slow drivers down more than the standard divided two car lane two way road they are accustomed to, due to the single center motorized lane that you pointed out.

As a commenter from the Netherlands pointed out somewhere else on this post, this paint only approach is supposed to just be one cost effective tool for very low throughout roads, the lower end of a panoply of system-level methods to design separation between ped, cycle, and car velocities, part of a system that first prioritizes proper cycleways over paint-only methods.

Unfortunately in North America we really have to crawl before we can walk on this one.

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