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Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

advisorybikelanes.com

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Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#21

Post by gpm »

bombcar wrote: post #13
robotmlg wrote: post #4

Road Guy Rob did a video recently about a failed edge lane road experiment. Seems like a good idea to me as long as car traffic isn't too heavy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeynqnirofE

I think the big problem is nobody knows what the heck they’ve encountered. If you do it naturally people can figure it out: make the road very narrow but technically wide enough for two cars and people will hug the center naturally.

Just don't draw any lines and even on wide (>2 cars) roads people seem to hug the center pretty naturally (IME, there are probably cultural differences between how people drive in different places that matter here).

The strange part about this road is that there were so many lines by the edge of the road, that's legitimately pretty confusing. I'm not sure if it's confusing in an unsafe way, but it's definitely uncomfortable.

I'd love to know if someone has a link to someone knowledgeable comparing "all these lines for edge lanes" to "just don't draw anything".

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#22

Post by b3morales »

blamazon wrote: post #5
occz wrote: post #2

As a staunch supporter of everything that reduces the amount of cars, I can't say that I'm particularly excited about this particular type of bicycle infrastructure. What benefits does it have over a configuration with a properly separated bicycle path? Are the benefits purely economical/space-related? If someone knows more, I'm more than happy to hear you out.

When faced with uncertainty, car drivers tend to slow down. That's the general advantage here. It's not better than a properly separated bike path, but it is better than a painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from.

Based on the picture, I don't see a big difference between this and the "painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from". Is it the single center motorized lane that is the important distinction?

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#23

Post by AHOHA »

Maybe better instead of wasting our tax money on a secondary priorities, Ottawa should really invest on fixing the asphalt roads itself (yes, in Ottawa city), you can't drive for a few minutes in Ottawa without potholes, bumps, and forever lasting constructions.. Those are the priority that should be focused on, as it's just not about damaging the car (tires/ suspensions/etc.) that none are covered by insurance, but also might harm people could be causing an accident avoiding it or caused by it. Get your priories right, Ottawa!

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#24

Post by bombcar »

gpm wrote: post #21
bombcar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big problem is nobody knows what the heck they’ve encountered. If you do it naturally people can figure it out: make the road very narrow but technically wide enough for two cars and people will hug the center naturally.

Just don't draw any lines and even on wide (>2 cars) roads people seem to hug the center pretty naturally (IME, there are probably cultural differences between how people drive in different places that matter here). The strange part about this road is that there were so many lines by the edge of the road, that's legitimately pretty confusing. I'm not sure if it's confusing in an unsafe way, but it's definitely uncomf…

I suspect lines really are only needed when you want to fit maximum lanes in a given space - many of the four lane roads here would turn into one lane each way without lines.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#25

Post by cycomanic »

Freak_NL wrote: post #12

> This roadway configuration originated in the Netherlands where they have over 50 years and many hundreds of road-kilometers of experience with this facility. Well yeah, but we use this specific configuration with the shared centre lane only on the lowest tier of rural roads where traffic is limited and the speed limit is 60 km/h (roughly 40 mph), and some select urban streets where they act as a traffic calming mea…

> Well yeah, but we use this specific configuration with the shared centre lane only on the lowest tier of rural roads where traffic is limited and the speed limit is 60 km/h (roughly 40 mph), and some select urban streets where they act as a traffic calming measure¹. Most arterial and collector roads have segregated cycleways, both within and without city limits. That is the basis of our road system. Cyclists and motorists mostly share only local roads/streets (30 km/h (20 mph) speed limit within city limits, 60 km/h without). The exceptions are roads where limited space means cyclists have dedicated cycle lanes which motorists may not use for overtaking, but in those cases motorized traffic won't share lanes with oncoming traffic either.

They actually say that in the video. In Germany they are mostly used in urban settings in streets with speedlimits below 30 km/h I believe. They definitely work if this is a low volume street, however the speed limits need to be enforced (a general problem in many countries IMO).

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#26

Post by eyelidlessness »

notatoad wrote: post #18
blamazon wrote: post #6

This is basically a paint manifestation of the "share the road" idea which is already common policy in North America on bidirectional roads without a bike lane. It is darkly amusing to see a lot of motorists being upset by finally seeing this arrangement in a format they can understand - dashed and solid painted lines.

the only reason the "share the road" signage is accepted in america is because drivers interpret it to mean that cyclists should give way to motorists. "other road users should share with me" rather than "i need to share with other road users" try going to a community meeting and suggesting that a "share the road" sign be replaced with a "cyclists may use full lane" sign and see how much pushback you get.

I’m not particularly concerned with the wording on the sign, but this sentiment is exactly why I prefer “sharrows”[1] over designated bike lanes. They very clearly indicate that cyclists are expected to be a part of traffic.

In my experience—at least in Seattle which is more bike friendly than baseline in the US but certainly not on par with Portland—drivers are far more likely to yield to cyclists with these markings than where a bike lane is present. In contrast, I’ve had drivers try to run me off the road, screaming mad, when I had the gall to perfectly legally ride in the main road where a bike lane was present[2]. Even when there was plenty of space for them to pass.

1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_lane_marking

2: Several of my cyclist friends disagree with me on this, but I find the particular bike lane exceedingly dangerous. I frequently avoided it when it was on my daily commute route, after numerous frightening close calls. Riding along with the aggressive drivers really did feel safer.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#27

Post by blenderdt »

cowmoo728 wrote: post #9

I recently did a few consecutive full day bicycle trips around the Netherlands and rode on many roads like this. I felt safe and drivers were respectful and patient when passing. I would never ride on one of these in the US. I can already imagine the Amazon delivery van or work truck parked in the bicycle section, forcing me into the center. I can also imagine the impatient drivers accelerating way beyond the speed l…

I don't know the rules in the US but in the Netherlands the car is always at fault in case of an accident, unless it is proven the cyclist was at fault.

This makes the roads a lot safer for cyclists.

When this law was introduced years ago the Dutch also made fun of it: https://youtu.be/ivY06w83fKU

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#28

Post by PaulHoule »

Freak_NL wrote: post #12

> This roadway configuration originated in the Netherlands where they have over 50 years and many hundreds of road-kilometers of experience with this facility. Well yeah, but we use this specific configuration with the shared centre lane only on the lowest tier of rural roads where traffic is limited and the speed limit is 60 km/h (roughly 40 mph), and some select urban streets where they act as a traffic calming mea…

I've ridden rental bikes on roads like these between Amsterdam and Leiden.

Re: Edge Lane Roads a.k.a. Advisory Bike Lanes

#29

Post by alistairSH »

b3morales wrote: post #22
blamazon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When faced with uncertainty, car drivers tend to slow down. That's the general advantage here. It's not better than a properly separated bike path, but it is better than a painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from.

Based on the picture, I don't see a big difference between this and the "painted bicycle gutter that motorists are comfortable driving 50mph inches from". Is it the single center motorized lane that is the important distinction?

Yes.

Except given American drivers insistence on their own primacy and infallibility on the road, I can’t envision an edge lane working.

The main road closest to my house was recently (3 years ago) re-striped from two lanes each direction to 1 lane + bike lane. Car frequently ignore the bike markings and simply use the bike lane for aggressive passing of vehicles going the speed limit. I damn near got run down from behind by a bro-dozer making one of these aggressive moves in the bike lane.

Too many American drivers are self-entitled wankers, and suburban roads are too wide and too fast, for this to work. (Of course, wide road, no reason for this model, but I suspect American drivers simply wouldn’t tolerate this design)

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