Has there been a large earthquake yet in an EV dense area? That will be interesting.
Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
151–160 of 185 posts
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Also we ship giant ships full of oil and gas all over the world every single day which is vastly more combustible than batteries. I see what you are saying, but the way we mitigate the fire and explosion hazards on oil and gas transport ships is not really applicable to roll-on/roll-off ships. The oil tankers and LNG ships use a technic called innert atmosphere to protect their cargo from fire hazard. The idea is t…
The problem is, that a lack of oxygene might prevent fires, but not battery shorts and the consequential heat. For treating battery fires, water is the best. Fortunately, water is easy to come by for a ship. So one component to transition car carriers is to add large sprinkler systems, which can quickly cool down a car with a thermal runaway. Ironically, what is often claimed as a fundamental problem with batteries,…
If a vehicle on a container ship catches fire, the goal is not to put out the fire; that car is a write-off. The goal is to keep it from spreading to another car.
That means sprinkler systems and well-crewed ships that can quickly respond to a fire in one of the decks.
Unfortunately, the shipping industry is effectively unregulated because workers don't dare complain about anything.
Ships have the bare minimum in equipment, likely in poor condition, operated by people who are paid peanuts, poorly trained, etc.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
EVs catch fire drastically less than combustion fueled vehicles because they don't involve explosive materials. Also we ship giant ships full of oil and gas all over the world every single day which is vastly more combustible than batteries.
ICE vehicles aren't filled with fuel when shipped, and oil and gas both have to aerosolize in an oxygen rich environment before ignition is possible. Batteries just have to get hot, and that can occur from simple mechanical damage.
ICE vehicles contain enough gas to be driven around at the plant lots, in/out of autocars (rail cars that carry cars), around at port lots, on and off ships, and so on.
"Simple mechanical damage" to the battery in an EV is a lot harder than you think. The packs are designed to remain intact in crashes...
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
in 2020+, if you're designing a charger that doesn't stop charging when full, then you're just a cheap ass bastard that deserves to go out of business. unfortunately, the people buying things are even more cheap and would continue to buy the cheap one to complain later when their home burns down. The only solve is that these cheap chargers are regulated into oblivion
I assure you the standard of "plugged in items shouldn't just explode because they were plugged in for too long" predates 2020
I understand that, which is why this is so maddening. It's not like we're in the transition phase to new standards. We've had these rules for a while now, we shouldn't still be having to worry about the item purchased might be a problem.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Putting out an EV battery fire basically entails dumping enormous amounts of water on it That's a problem fire departments are still trying to adapt to, many resorting to putting out the fire conventionally, then submerging the car in a water-filled container. But I'm unclear on how that makes the risk profile worse for ships? The initial fire should be easier to contain with EVs than with gasoline cars because EV…
> But I'm unclear on how that makes the risk profile worse for ships? Gasoline-powered vehicles aren't fueled when loaded onto a ship, so they don't really pose much of a fire hazard. However for EVs this is a problem, because it's very difficult to completely drain a lithium battery. > water for cooling affected vehicles for a couple hours is plentiful. It's a ship after all. Getting the water to all those vehicles…
Cars are usually loaded onto a Ro-ro on their own power, and will have some amount of fuel on board. They typically want 10-25% full tanks to account for various contingencies, but I don't know how carefully that's monitored. Given the amount of vehicles in question, probably not that closely, though presumably manufacturers are equipped to be reasonably systematic about fuel fill.
Bilge pumps should be able to keep up with firefighting pumps. But, yes, the firefighting pumps won't be able to handle more than several cars on fire.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop it with this absurd fear mongering already? There's millions of EVs on the road now. I have had my Leaf for 8 years and keep seeing this same tired FUD online. The incidents of fires from electric cars are extremely low. The scooters and other cheap vehicles you cite are a separate problem from just being Lithium-Ion batteries. They're cheap procucts with bad electronics and poor protection of the battery…
Let me add that such "gasoline powered dangerous cheap products" aren't hypothetical. I remember the era when it was legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike or a scooter platform, those things were hideously loud and had plastic exposed bottles full of gas attached to them. We banned those, we can demand adequate quality control on electric vehicles as well.
>legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike
It's rather common where I live, not weird at all. Those are only loud when unmodified and every kit comes with a standard gas tank, perhaps banning them altoghether isn't an answer?
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me add that such "gasoline powered dangerous cheap products" aren't hypothetical. I remember the era when it was legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike or a scooter platform, those things were hideously loud and had plastic exposed bottles full of gas attached to them. We banned those, we can demand adequate quality control on electric vehicles as well.
>legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike It's rather common where I live, not weird at all. Those are only loud when unmodified and every kit comes with a standard gas tank, perhaps banning them altoghether isn't an answer?
It's impossible to carry on a normal conversation next to a running two stroke regardless of muffling. I support a complete ban on those engines in city and most suburban limits, electric versions of the various tools which run on them are adequate and much, much quieter.
This is fully justifiable not on noise alone, which can be mitigated, but the unacceptable level of hazardous particles released by incomplete oil combustion, which cannot be. Better to write them off like leaded gasoline, the tradeoffs aren't worth it.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But I'm unclear on how that makes the risk profile worse for ships? Gasoline-powered vehicles aren't fueled when loaded onto a ship, so they don't really pose much of a fire hazard. However for EVs this is a problem, because it's very difficult to completely drain a lithium battery. > water for cooling affected vehicles for a couple hours is plentiful. It's a ship after all. Getting the water to all those vehicles…
Cars are usually loaded onto a Ro-ro on their own power, and will have some amount of fuel on board. They typically want 10-25% full tanks to account for various contingencies, but I don't know how carefully that's monitored. Given the amount of vehicles in question, probably not that closely, though presumably manufacturers are equipped to be reasonably systematic about fuel fill. Bilge pumps should be able to keep…
Last time I had my car shipped, they checked the fuel level was 1/4 task or less, and made me drive around until it was less than that.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop it with this absurd fear mongering already? There's millions of EVs on the road now. I have had my Leaf for 8 years and keep seeing this same tired FUD online. The incidents of fires from electric cars are extremely low. The scooters and other cheap vehicles you cite are a separate problem from just being Lithium-Ion batteries. They're cheap procucts with bad electronics and poor protection of the battery…
Let me add that such "gasoline powered dangerous cheap products" aren't hypothetical. I remember the era when it was legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike or a scooter platform, those things were hideously loud and had plastic exposed bottles full of gas attached to them. We banned those, we can demand adequate quality control on electric vehicles as well.
I am unsure where you live, but I have never seen them banned in the southeast US.
Re: Is It Safe to Ship Thousands of Electric Cars on Big Ships?
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
>legal to hook a 2 stroke up to a bike It's rather common where I live, not weird at all. Those are only loud when unmodified and every kit comes with a standard gas tank, perhaps banning them altoghether isn't an answer?
It's impossible to carry on a normal conversation next to a running two stroke regardless of muffling. I support a complete ban on those engines in city and most suburban limits, electric versions of the various tools which run on them are adequate and much, much quieter. This is fully justifiable not on noise alone, which can be mitigated, but the unacceptable level of hazardous particles released by incomplete oil…
I suspect you are only listening to unmuffled 2 strokes. I've owned plenty of 2 stroke vehicles. Not only are they quiet, they are substantially quieter than their four stroke counterpart. Of course, they come with a nice muffler from the factory.