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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#951

Post by trasz »

DocTomoe wrote: post #928
adrr wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US said they protect countries who apply for NATO. So attacking Sweden or Finland would bring the US into the conflict. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-05/u-s-gives...

Would I, as a Finnish or Swedish lawmaker, trust that promise? The US has not won a war in eighty years, and their shoot first, ask questions later approach may ultimately be more destructive than Russians could ever be.

There is a fundamental difference: US is dangerous to armies, Russia is dangerous to civilians.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#952

Post by trasz »

DocTomoe wrote: post #931
trashtester wrote: post #880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the greater reason for hesitating to accept Ukraine up until now would be their still-unstable democracy and high level of corruption. When the war is over, it may be that the new-found unity caused by the external threat will be enough for them to reinforce their institutions significantly. This could reach a point that could ensure lasting democracy while enabling them to properly fight/eliminate most corru…

NATO has no problems with unstable democracies and high levels of corruption. It was founded by the US... More likely, Ukraine after the war will be a massively destroyed country, with widespread poverty and a constant need for western powers to pour money into - and that breeds corruption. The only way forward - should they survive as a nationstate - would be some kind of grotesquely enlarged Marshall Plan - they wo…

Ukraine can be paid war reparations with the money confiscated from Russia, including Russian reserves. It might actually boost their economy compared to pre-war situation.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#954

Post by doikor »

refurb wrote: post #908
doikor wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really as there basically is only one big defense treaty in the form of NATO. For it to be similar there would have to be 2 or 3 defense treaties of roughly the same size/strength which Russia does not come anywhere close to.

Russia and China are not allied though. In fact militarily they are against each other due to India. Russia is selling India weapons that India then uses against China in their ongoing border conflict. This is also why India did not really join the sanctions against Russia.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#955

Post by klausjensen »

Wildgoose wrote: post #832
denton-scratch wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a "civil war"; Ukraine has been invaded by a foreign army.

Not in 2014 it wasn’t.

Russia most certainly invaded.

"In response to the deteriorating situation in the Donbas, Russia abandoned its hybrid approach, and began a conventional invasion of the region. The first sign of this invasion was 25 August 2014 capture of a group of Russian paratroopers on active service in Ukrainian territory by the Ukrainian security service (SBU)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=In....

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#956

Post by meepmorp »

maratc wrote: post #915
meepmorp wrote: post #910

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attack subs. The US alone has 60 nuclear ones, able to pursue Russian missile boats.

Considering that each nuclear sub has 80-100 warheads that are enough to destroy an entire continent, and considering it takes about an hour to fire them while underwater, do you suggest to attack the subs before they fire or after? How do you suggest to locate them?

Do you think that the US doesn't actively track the location of Russian missile subs? There's a limited number of sub pens and they're visible on satellite. And tracking missile subs is a big part of the attack sub's role.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not nearly as impossible or hopeless as you seem to think.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#957

Post by mrits »

maratc wrote: post #854
mrits wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a doubt NATO would release every single nuke needed to make sure Russia can't launch another missile. We'd take tremendous damage and introduce a possibility of nuclear winter, but we aren't going to sit around and wonder what other targets Russia has in mind. So yeah, we'd blast them back before the first nukes even landed.

Interesting. And what would be your suggestions on the nuclear missiles that are based on Russian submarines that are wandering somewhere in the ocean?

Every Russian sub is shadowed by a US sub.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#958

Post by klausjensen »

aa-jv wrote: post #192
adwn wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CIA has entered the chat. Please leave lazy, youtube-comments-style memes out of HN.

The CIA does not leave any room for voluntary decisions to join NATO. It actively engages in repressive counter-measures against any politician that calls for NATO war crimes to be investigated. It has a long, sordid history of defeating sovereign democracies that do not toe the NATO line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...

When it looks like Finland and Sweden are going to join NATO soon, you say it is because of CIA manipulation?

I assume you do not recognize the polls in for example Finland, which indicates ~22% support for joining NATO before the Russian invasion of Ukraine - to ~75% now (only 12% against)? This is all CIA manipulation?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#959

Post by goldorak »

trasz wrote: post #951
DocTomoe wrote: post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would I, as a Finnish or Swedish lawmaker, trust that promise? The US has not won a war in eighty years, and their shoot first, ask questions later approach may ultimately be more destructive than Russians could ever be.

There is a fundamental difference: US is dangerous to armies, Russia is dangerous to civilians.

Cooome on! the US is also extremely dangerous to civilian population, look at vietnam, afganistan, irak... this is almost obscene.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#960

Post by pastacacioepepe »

eru wrote: post #930
bonzini wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not okay to poison political opponents even if they are just much a piece of sh*t as the poisoner. But if Navalny isn't okay, let's talk instead about Russia poisoning Yushchenko in 2004 with dioxin...

Imagine Biden poisoning Trump for comparison.

I can't, but I can very well imagine any USA president carry the assassination of foreign leaders through the CIA. Actually no need to imagine as it's history, more and less recent.
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