Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

Post by GolDDranks » Fri, May 13, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

GolDDranks wrote: post #939

jl2718 wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the regime falls and leaves a power vacuum, what do you think the best way to help the people toward that is? My greatest concern is what comes next. The current regime is a kleptocracy, which is awful for the people, but easy to predict and control and siphon cheap natural resources from. They stay in power partly by fear of EU/NATO, but it’s questionable support. Once the kleptocracy is gone, EU/NATO can e…

That sounds like a super hard problem, because USSR already collapsed once, and stuff seemed like it was going to a better direction, but in the end we got Putin. Also, it's in interests of China to keep a some kind of power balance, so at least I think that EU/NATO shouldn't think the fate of Russia as "not my problem", or else China might do some opportunistic power plays.

Post by maratc » Fri, May 13, 2022, 8:51 AM UTC

skissane wrote: post #313

NicoJuicy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkeye is balancing things. They also closed it for NATO and did it after Russian ships arrived.

Turkey does have some recent history of "balancing" with Russia, but I'm not convinced its decisions on the Straits are an example of that. My understanding is that under the Montreux Convention, Turkey closes it for everybody involved in the war or nobody, I don't believe it allows Turkey to block one side of a conflict's ships but not the other, unless it is a conflict in which Turkey itself is directly involved. (…

Post by piva00 » Fri, May 13, 2022, 9:41 AM UTC

shreyshnaccount wrote: post #751

Regic wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hungarian leading party (fidesz) has already declared they will not veto Ukrain's adoption to the EU so I personally really doubt they would veto Finland's entry to the NATO. They are playing a double-game (sorry, this probably doesn't make sense in english, it's a hungarian expression): Orban had a famous quote he said to EU leaders "don't listen to what I say, only to what I do", which in practice means alienat…

To stray from the topic, the double game phrase does make sense to me, possibly because it's also a Hindi phrase

Post by yakubin » Fri, May 13, 2022, 11:17 AM UTC

CRConrad wrote: post #709

yakubin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The West would tolerate invasion by Russia of Finland even less than it is doing for Ukraine, with or without NATO membership (notably, Ukraine is not part of NATO either). That's not saying much. Ukraine isn't receiving military support from NATO countries. It only gets weapons, and western politicians (mostly US) keep making sure that they do not get the big guns (regarding e.g. airplanes). Initially Germany bloc…

> western politicians (mostly US) keep making sure that they do not get the big guns "US"? Must be a typo for "Germany".

Post by simonh » Fri, May 13, 2022, 11:18 AM UTC

aiilns wrote: post #648

simonh wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with Putin either, but I also agree that his actions make sense within his own frame of reference. It's not just about whether the Ukrainian's lives would be better from any observer's opinion. Nor is it a matter of them 'being under ... influence' as though they have no agency and are simply chaff blown in the wind. This conflict is fundamentally not about influence over Ukrainians, but about the Ukrai…

I won't pretend to be an expert on the matter, but I do not agree with your view. For one, I think you are seriously misrepresenting USA's position. It's the biggest military power in the West and possibly the world, a country with military bases and operations all around the world. That the USA does not concern itself with other countries' matters is, sorry to say, laughable. I also don't agree with your position th…