801–810 of 1001 posts
Regimes change. I expect soon. Then what? Are we still locked into opposition with the Russian people? Given a blank slate, what relationship do we want between NATO/EU countries and Russia?
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Well in the run up to the Russian invasion Ukraine wasn’t provoking Russia, and Russia officials continually denied it had plans to invade until oh wait they’d had plans for a super long time. I’m not sure about Ukraine complying with Russia orders, but they weren’t really antagonizing them other than by existing and not being completely subservient like Belarus. So yeah after top Russian officials spent so much time…
Your version of what happened seems extremely incomplete to me. Ukraine was basically fighting a war against Russia for 8 years already [1]... and that war started when the Russia-friendly government was removed by revolution (the demoted president fled to Russia after that) after which a very anti-Russian government was immediately instated with the whole objective of joining NATO and the EU, to Russia's dismay... N…
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Only if you assume the risk of conflict in any member country being the same as when they weren't a member.
> Only if you assume the risk of conflict in any member country being the same as when they weren't a member Let's imagine we're France. What's the actual risk of us being directly attacked by an enemy country, starting a conflict? Now imagine we're France, obliged to join in a conflict by NATO's "collective defence" Article 5. This conflict was already started by an enemy attacking any one of the other 29 NATO membe…
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Sweden not selling them parts would be the end of Sweden selling planes to anyone.
Sweden entering NATO could be the beginning of Sweden selling planes to NATO.
But Sweden is already member of the Cuture Combat Air System (FCAS) initiative to create a 6th gen air war system of systems, alongside nato members. And this kind of colaboration will be even more natural when/if they join Nato.
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The hungarian leading party (fidesz) has already declared they will not veto Ukrain's adoption to the EU so I personally really doubt they would veto Finland's entry to the NATO. They are playing a double-game (sorry, this probably doesn't make sense in english, it's a hungarian expression): Orban had a famous quote he said to EU leaders "don't listen to what I say, only to what I do", which in practice means alienat…
> "don't listen to what I say, only to what I do", There is a close enough express in English that it translates. "Do what I say, not what I do", is something parents tell kids when the parents want the kids to behave better than the parents do! For example, if a parent smokes, they may tell their kid "don't smoke, do what I say not what I do."
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Do you know why everyone hates Nazis? I mean the real Nazis, not the wannabe Nazis that exist in pretty much every European nation right now including Russia. It's because they dehumanized their opponents. You're doing the same thing with your statement. You're not alone, and what you do is common, and people's reaction to it seems to be full of double standards, but that's what you're doing. Humans are humans. Right…
Brecht
I worry about people and US does not otherwise they wouldn’t be feeding it with free weapons, it’s a matter of power and influence, don’t tell me you care about The people when US killed kids in Iraq and jailed journalists reporting it, fuck US
They should have a referendum and ask the Finish people if this is what they want. It makes the country a target in the event of a broad conflict.
Regimes change. I expect soon. Then what? Are we still locked into opposition with the Russian people? Given a blank slate, what relationship do we want between NATO/EU countries and Russia?
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AFAIK kicking someone out of NATO is very difficult. Otherwise I suspect that about 5 years ago Turkey would have been at risk of being removed.
NATO has really benefited from having Turkey as a member in this war (which is essentially a proxy war between Russia and NATO)-Turkey exercised its right to close the Bosporus to military ships not based there, which prevents Russia from reinforcing its Black Sea fleet. An ex-NATO Turkey might have taken Russia’s side and left the straits open. Closing them disadvantaged Russia far more than anyone else, since Ukrai…
This is kind of like seeing WW2 pre PH as a proxy war between the USA and Germany....
Ukraine is clearly a part in this war, as they have shown by their heroic ability to resist.
Nato is clearly on Ukraine's side.
You are right that NATO benefits greatly from still having Turkey on the team, though. Also, I think Turkey is not super supportive of Putins's attempts to annext territory by force and/or vassalize their neighbours through invasions.
Next time, they could annex Georgia, and I'm pretty sure that would be seen as a grave threat by Turkey.
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Boy I have good news for you! If you are worried of the finance of Finland joining NATO - This will be a strategic partnership, not aid. It's a "good deal" for both sides. Finland will be an asset for NATO, not a cost. We already have a credible NATO compatible military. We just don't have nukes, and in wartime materiel replenishment would be a problem. https://www.ft.com/content/e85825af-5172-44c4-9662-f7ceca40e...…