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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#621

Post by FpUser »

suture wrote: post #329
klibertp wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I'm not American, and don't care that much. I was referring to this part: > I'm just tired of the USA paying for everything when we don't have the money. Which seems to be one of the things that made the previous President the President.

I’m an American. For many decades the idea that the U.S. props up the rest of world at the expense of focusing on our people has been a strong one. It was very strong going into the 80s but has becomes less so since then. It is still used from time to time galvanize right leaning people. There is a strong isolationist bent within the U.S. too. I do believe Trump was correct to criticize the lack of defense spending b…

>"For many decades the idea that the U.S. props up the rest of world ..."

It does not do it for free. It gets many benefits from "the rest of the world". Like buying US debt, trading oil in US dollars, access to cheap labor, bigger market etc. etc. Nothing of what it does is "free". This giant war spending also helps them to bomb other countries into oblivion when they feel like.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#623

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

klibertp wrote: post #244
donthellbanme wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This post was dead when I stumbled upon it. I don't agree with it, for the obvious reasons, including the fact that I'm not American. Yet, my understanding is that this kind of opinion is shared by a large number of US citizens. I don't believe censoring it is the correct way to deal with it - it's not even off-topic as we discuss NATO membership in the first place.

An account created 24 days ago using talking points generally considered incorrect and inflammatory and the account name is literally named "donthellbanme"? And that is whom you chose to give the benefit of the doubt?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#624

Post by nradov »

skissane wrote: post #313
NicoJuicy wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkeye is balancing things. They also closed it for NATO and did it after Russian ships arrived.

Turkey does have some recent history of "balancing" with Russia, but I'm not convinced its decisions on the Straits are an example of that. My understanding is that under the Montreux Convention, Turkey closes it for everybody involved in the war or nobody, I don't believe it allows Turkey to block one side of a conflict's ships but not the other, unless it is a conflict in which Turkey itself is directly involved. (…

The UK did send a warship near Ukraine in 2021 (before the start of the current war), and the Russian military might have fired warning shots at it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#625

Post by CRConrad »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #510
rendall wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Baltic sea will soon be pretty much closed for them Why would the Baltic Sea be closed to Russia? How would this be enforced?

Denmark controls access to the Baltic Sea. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Baltic+Sea/@55.685476,11.0... And Estonia and Finland control access to Russia's only ports in the Baltic Sea. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Baltic+Sea/@60.5931556,25....

Well, Königsberg.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#626

Post by Intermernet »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #438
myko wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining NATO is literally in the Ukrainian constitution. It is not optional, attempting to join is a requirement of the government of Ukraine and not working toward that end would be unconstitutional.

Quoted post unavailable.

Do you know why everyone hates Nazis? I mean the real Nazis, not the wannabe Nazis that exist in pretty much every European nation right now including Russia. It's because they dehumanized their opponents. You're doing the same thing with your statement. You're not alone, and what you do is common, and people's reaction to it seems to be full of double standards, but that's what you're doing.

Humans are humans. Right now I really worry about the people in Ukraine. I really worry about the people in Russia. I really worry about the people in every other area of conflict. This is called empathy. A lack of it is pretty much the only reason these conflicts gain traction. Try to be empathetic to the other humans you share the planet with.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#627

Post by suture »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #376
suture wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an American. For many decades the idea that the U.S. props up the rest of world at the expense of focusing on our people has been a strong one. It was very strong going into the 80s but has becomes less so since then. It is still used from time to time galvanize right leaning people. There is a strong isolationist bent within the U.S. too. I do believe Trump was correct to criticize the lack of defense spending b…

Vouched this not because I agree with it, but because I feel it deserves a reply. You should note that even Trump held Finland as a counterexample to European NATO countries that don't pull their own weight. Finland is not a country that spends all it's money on social programs and doesn't have a military. Instead, we still have mandatory male conscription, and a very well-armed reserve. Historically, we have trusted…

I was only presenting an American view regarding the notion of “we pay for others at our own expense”. Trumps comments were directed at NATO members and not Finland or Sweden. He also famously said South Korea and Japan needed to spend more.

My personal view on the matter is that I support an imperial retreat by the U.S. The EU needs to listen more to the Baltics regarding defense and foreign policy.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#628

Post by CRConrad »

thinkingemote wrote: post #4

Has Finland significant pro-Russian politicians? Or at least pro before February 2022? I visited there a while ago and there was a feel of Russian friendliness at the least with significant independence on the streets. But that's just my feelings and I wasn't paying attention back then.

> Has Finland significant pro-Russian politicians?

Nowadays, only Erkki Tuomioja...

[Edit: Fortunately he's old enough to soon be significant only historically.]

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#629

Post by hemreldop »

rich_sasha wrote: post #496
andruby wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.

Vetos are somewhat overrated. Agents may have the right to veto, but might not have the power to deal with the consequences. Russia has a UN veto and uses it, because they can weather the consequences. Could Hungary piss off all of its allies, trade partners, basically everyone but Russia? Doubtful. Hungary is playing a skillful, if somewhat devious, game of balancing between Russia and the West. But an outright FU t…

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