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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#581

Post by googlr29783 »

7speter wrote: post #345
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them I mean, I’ve seen people working in retail make this same point. And I’m not saying either of you are invalid in your claim, thats j…

That's how capitalism works, specifically delivering to capitalists the difference between the product's value and the worker's wage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_of_labour#Surplus...

It can be difficult to remember that the system wasn't always like this.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#582

Post by googlr29783 »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #106
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're a senior delivering 10x the value of a grad Not arguing one way or another. But an alternate hypothesis would be this skill gap has closed. Education might be better. Or tooling may have improved such that the tangible benefit of experience has, for most current applications, depreciated. Assuming the reduced innovativeness of the average tech worker today versus ten years ago, the equation balances. Test mi…

It's not, juniors are as bad as they were 2 years ago. Generally it's politically easier to nerf better paid employees than cheap ones. You can have the socialist argument of "hey senior engineer, take a salary cut / no raise for the common good, to avoid layoffs of junior engineers - which btw would be the first to go as they're not as productive as you are" and I've seen plenty of senior engineers accept that. Thei…

How is that a socialist argument? Telling workers to share resources because the company refuses to reduce its profit margin sounds capitalist to me.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#583

Post by emteycz »

jason0597 wrote: post #399
emteycz wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel special because the same thing applies to every programmer I know. How could I in any way feel special when I'm just the same as others? I said it because I wanted you to feel how the market is, not because it makes me special. And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people. To…

> "And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people." Well, a job takes up roughly 1/3 of our working lives (minus 2/3 for sleep (8hrs) and "leisure" (8hrs)), so I would say that it defines us very much, and it's a lot more than "just a job". A "job" is stacking shelves at Tesco or driving lor…

A job can make a person special, but it's not the default.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#584

Post by xcambar »

TecoAndJix wrote: post #480
xcambar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In early America, you pillaged and ransacked.

In early America, you string up with your fellow ammino acids in the primordial soup

You won't get me to call Pangaea "early America".

So typical of American imperialism.

Only second to the Brits.

;)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#585

Post by hiram112 »

websap wrote: post #539
ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

If you've been in tech for 20 years and aren't making 1 MM per year, you're doing something wrong. Talk to people around you.

I honestly can't tell if this a joke or not.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#586

Post by simonh »

googlr29783 wrote: post #580
simonh wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the courts put a stop to it. There were several cases against various companies over the years, but there don’t seem to be any since 2014. Did engineers salaries suddenly jump as a result 6 years ago? Is there any evidence of significant collusion since? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Steve and Larry share their employees salaries with each other to avoid a bidding war over top talent. Lucy finds out and orders Steve and Larry to stop doing that. Now Steve shares salary data with Teddy and Teddy tells Steve what the market average is. Larry also shares salary data with Teddy and also learns what the market average is. No collusion! But the effect is the same. That's why they earn the big bucks.

Knowing the price of a thing is how markets work. If I want to buy tomatoes and a friend tells me a shop down the road has them on special offer, that's not collusion.We're not artificially suppressing the price of tomatoes. Anyway companies already know this by just offering a given salary and seeing if they get decent applicants. If they're not getting enough good applicant, they just raise the offer if they think it's appropriate. Having said that the habit of companies suppressing info about salaries between employees should be fought.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#587

Post by nicoburns »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #410
nicoburns wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are the two feelings in conflict? I can be concerned for the people around me AND be concerned that I'm making less than X times more than the average. Because as a tech worker your salary is likely already well above the level that it would need to fall in order for us to achieve meaningful level of wealth equality (not complete equality, but equal-ish) > making everyone an equal millionaire will never work Ye…

I believe in equality of opportunity , not outcome. So, I'm absolutely fine with paying higher taxes if that money gets ear-marked for single payer healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc. See the nordics for an example. I don't believe doing that would require making millionaires as rare as billionaires are today. The nordic countries have plenty of millionaires and billionaires, yet everyone has most of their ba…

Something I suspect we both believe in is that allocation of resources ought to be roughly proportional to value provided.

Where I suspect we differ is that I don’t believe that market value of services is an especially accurate measure of true value provided. And in particular I think it would be pretty much impossible for someone to provide enough value to society (relative to the average person with a normal job - many of which IMO provide huge value to society for little compensation) to warrant billionaire level wealth. I therefore think we ought to correct this discrepancy.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#588

Post by nicoburns »

emteycz wrote: post #378
nicoburns wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't force you to work less. If you think earning less would have a serious impact on your mental health, then spare a thought for those who already earn dramatically less than you, and still would (although not by quite so much) after such a change was implemented.

I can't spare a thought for them when my own existence is endangered. I'm thinking about them a lot now, and donate when I can, but that would have to end. The problem here is being forced to work less at a time when I'm able to work more. It's not fair to make me earn less just because I wasn't able to spread out my work across the calendar because of my mental health issues.

I don't see where your ability to spread out work is affected at all. Taxes are usually done annually, so how spread or concentrated work is over a year wouldn't affect the level of taxation. And it's already the case that this can't (easily - I suspect there are ways) be spread over multiple years. That wouldn't be a change.

I would also point out that those with lower salaries also suffer from mental health issues. I see no reason why yours specifically should take precedence.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#589

Post by benhurmarcel »

zelos wrote: post #80
yreg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh I don't feel underpaid; I feel the US/FAANG engineers are ridiculously overpaid.

Their employers are making $300k+ net profit per employee. The salaries seem reasonable to me on that basis.

Salaries aren't based on profit per employee, that's just an upper limit. They're based on the market (ie. what it would cost to replace you).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#590

Post by benhurmarcel »

dqpb wrote: post #340
yreg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh I don't feel underpaid; I feel the US/FAANG engineers are ridiculously overpaid.

If that were true, companies would be going out of business, but instead they're thriving. Why are Europeans so underpaid? Are their tech companies not thriving?

Less offer, similar demand. European tech companies could pay more, but they don't need to because they don't compete as much for workers. If you ask for more they have no trouble finding someone else who will take it.
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