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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#361

Post by nicoburns »

emteycz wrote: post #352
nicoburns wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it's a life where I am forbidden to do useful things that others want me to do and I am willing and able (which is not always, or often) - just because someone said "you did enough in this arbitrary period of time, give us your money or don't do it at all". No you're not. You're free to do whatever you like. You just won't receive as much money in return as you would otherwise have done. > From the beginning wh…

> No you're not. You're free to do whatever you like. You just won't receive as much money in return as you would otherwise have done. You say no and then you say the same thing I said, lol. > It was you who said further up the thread that would choose to work less. No, I said your idea would force me to work less and I also said that it'd have a serious negative impact on me and my health.

It wouldn't force you to work less. If you think earning less would have a serious impact on your mental health, then spare a thought for those who already earn dramatically less than you, and still would (although not by quite so much) after such a change was implemented.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#362

Post by thoughtpalette »

ryandrake wrote: post #312
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

Due to anecdotal reasons, going to have to disagree. Last switch was a 39% increase at 11 years in industry. The market is hot. Most of my friends/colleagues have seen a similar increase the last year.

Obviously market, location, expertise will vary, etc.

YMMV.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#363

Post by ketzo »

dolni wrote: post #217
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Why the knock on internal tooling? If internal tooling helps a value-add position go 10% faster, that's worth a lot. And most likely it isn't just one position, it's many.

Yeah, but if you tweak an ad-placement algorithm or a UI that results in Google selling 0.1% more ads, you've instantly produced more revenue than you will make in salary your entire life.

No one's making a value judgement. The direct numbers just aren't comparable.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#364

Post by xvector »

bradlys wrote: post #353
ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

To be fair - you can get to staff and make $500k+/yr. After that - it’s very nebulous as to how you get higher up the ladder and doesn’t involve leetcode as much as it does political prowess and the right connections. So, I believe it is still possible but it is a very different skill set and does become difficult. Transitioning to management train sometimes is more efficient and then it’s a whole new skill set to pr…

You can make 500K+ as a senior engineer with competing offers - and you can get senior with 4 YoE out of college (bachelor's in a top 3 program) these days. No need to wait for staff.

Source: My current nearly-concluded job search.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#365

Post by zie »

indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

It's not a secret that tech companies underpay their employees and bank on them being too complacent to go through the interview gauntlet yet again.

Remove the word tech, and you basically have it right. Why would companies whose goal is to maximize profit pay more than they have to? There is little incentive for companies to pay more than required to meet their needs.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#366

Post by jolux »

maxsilver wrote: post #354
jolux wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. Most major metros are experiencing a serious housing crisis right now. We see similar problems to SF here in Somerville and Cambridge, albeit to a lesser degree. There's certainly not enough being built to keep pace with demand. The suburbs around us are even worse.

> We see similar problems to SF here in Somerville and Cambridge, "Boston saw a historic building boom during the seven years (2014-2021) that former mayor Marty Walsh, a former construction union leader, occupied City Hall. The city’s skyline transformed, and continues to do so. Tens of thousands of new units of housing were created. An entire neighborhood rose from the ground." - https://www.boston.com/news/politic…

> Boston certainly fits that model -- it's price problems have nothing to do with any shortage in construction (construction is booming) or 'housing ban' (obviously there's no meaningful ban, because construction has already happened in large numbers for over a decade)

This is poor reasoning. The fact that some housing got built does not mean that there weren't significant impediments to building it, many of which still remain. Or that even during the boom that enough housing was built to sustain increased demand. There has been a historic housing boom alongside an enormous population surge over the past ten years (nearly 10% in the city proper alone). The boom is still not keeping pace with demand, and restrictions on multi-family housing remain. Here's a good article that gives an overview of the policy issues locally: https://commonwealthmagazine.org/opinion/on-housing-wu-shoul...

In particular:

> In Boston, on account of its antiquated zoning laws, it’s easier to build a leather tannery than it is to site an apartment building. The zoning code is written in such a way that it is nearly impossible to build multi-family housing, without going through the time consuming and costly process to obtain a zoning variance. Even then, projects are at the mercy of abutters and neighborhood associations that are often diametrically opposed to any form of development in their backyards, particularly projects with a higher unit count.

Also,

> Most high prices have literally nothing to do with supply or demand in any traditional (person-based) sense.

Citation needed. Population is growing faster than housing supply. High prices are exactly what you would expect in this situation. Building more housing is the only long-term solution.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#367

Post by BlargMcLarg »

dqpb wrote: post #340
yreg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh I don't feel underpaid; I feel the US/FAANG engineers are ridiculously overpaid.

If that were true, companies would be going out of business, but instead they're thriving. Why are Europeans so underpaid? Are their tech companies not thriving?

Scale and culture. For scale, see https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala... for more. There just isn't a lot of money in only a local market, and trying to accommodate a dozen countries worth of languages, culture and standards is far more difficult than one.

For culture, a lot of European countries feel it is justified developers earn similar to other white collar jobs. It doesn't have the "heightened" status I often feel the US seems to give developers. Other white collar jobs don't really earn a lot either. Tech jobs kind of stop growing at senior, and require pivoting into management at least partially for higher income. Speaking of management, it is kind of unheard to earn more than your manager, unless you solidly outrank them in seniority. As a result, whatever the manager is paid, forms a tight glass ceiling for oneself.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#368

Post by erwincoumans »

gorbachev wrote: post #206
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

The overall economy inflation numbers are completely meaningless when cost of education, housing and healthcare has been skyrocketing for more than a decade, maybe even longer. The average worker, especially those with families, have seen their costs inflate much, much higher than 11% per year for quite some time.

In Foster City, CA, bay area, a salary of $146k is considered low income, and can get access to affordable housing [1]. A 3/4 bedroom townhouse in Foster City, CA bay area used to be 800k usd 10 years ago, today it goes for 2M usd, with offers 200k to 400k above asking price. [2] [3] [4]

[1] https://www.fostercity.org/faqs?keys=&field_microsite_tid=Al...

[2] https://deniseliew.realscout.com/homesearch/listings/p-812-m...

[3] https://deniseliew.realscout.com/homesearch/listings/p-893-e...

[4] https://deniseliew.realscout.com/homesearch/listings/p-1112-...

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#369

Post by Firmwarrior »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #336
ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

This is something I don't think gets discussed enough. In my first 10 years of career I basically doubled my salary, by moving every 2-3 years, but I also now know I am pretty much hitting a plateau, anytime I talk with recruiters and talk about the salary I'd like to move which is about 10-20% (which is pretty reasonable given the benefits I got now) then people express reservations. Some people will end up making 2…

Good news, friend. I'm an IC making ~400k/year (it's half RSUs, so that number fluctuates a lot) with 15 years' experience and not much networking/politicking skill

I have some friends making ~600, although a lot of that was getting lucky with RSUs, so I'm not sure they can keep it up in the long run

Either way, the ceiling is a lot higher than 150

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#370

Post by duped »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #213
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

And to think, people working in IT actually get raises, and can earn more money by changing jobs; they are already quite privileged compared to those earning closer to minimum wage (like 30K a year?), given that said minimum wage hasn't been increased from $7.25 in 13 years now, while cost of living and inflation HAS gone up. One issue is that while costs of products, housing, etc is adjusted pretty much instantly wi…

> that said minimum wage hasn't been increased from $7.25 in 13 years now, while cost of living and inflation HAS gone up.

And it never will go up when conservatives have a majority in the Senate, but regardless wages have been growing (1)

> How often have wages gone up at a rate higher than inflation? I can't remember it

According to the same source, there were multiple periods since 2007 where wages rose faster than inflation

That's not to say that wages shouldn't grow higher or make up for the periods where wage increase is below inflation... but at the same time, it's dishonest to point to the floor set by the government as evidence, when in periods of high labor demand and economic growth we see wages go up in (since you can't hire anyone at the minimum wage!)

(1) https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/

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