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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#331

Post by cycomanic »

aa-jv wrote: post #254
simion314 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The CIA has entered the chat. If you are not a Ruzzian troll go to a subrredit for n eastern country and ask the people there what they think about NATO and Russia, like go to r/romania . I assure you we don't need CIA propaganda to understand the danger Russia was and is for our freedom and unfortunetly for our brothers in Moldova that got screwed hard and might get cewed more in future but the Russians. Though I c…

I live in Eastern Europe, its why I have a balanced view of the situation. There are as many states in this region who want to ally against NATO because of its war crimes and crimes against humanity - however I wager those states are not on your radar since you clearly live inside the media bubble created for you by the literal makers of bombs to be dropped by NATO forces in future wars .

Ok be specific which states?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#332

Post by mcv »

aa-jv wrote: post #254
simion314 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The CIA has entered the chat. If you are not a Ruzzian troll go to a subrredit for n eastern country and ask the people there what they think about NATO and Russia, like go to r/romania . I assure you we don't need CIA propaganda to understand the danger Russia was and is for our freedom and unfortunetly for our brothers in Moldova that got screwed hard and might get cewed more in future but the Russians. Though I c…

I live in Eastern Europe, its why I have a balanced view of the situation. There are as many states in this region who want to ally against NATO because of its war crimes and crimes against humanity - however I wager those states are not on your radar since you clearly live inside the media bubble created for you by the literal makers of bombs to be dropped by NATO forces in future wars .

Well, why haven't they? Any country is free to form their own alliances.

Living in eastern Europe does not guarantee a balanced view of the situation, though. Russia is a very large part of eastern Europe, and balanced views of the situation will get you thrown in prison.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#333

Post by mrep »

aa-jv wrote: post #310
mrep wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand what profit means.

I sure know what it means to Lockheed Martin (LMT), Northrop Grumman (NOG) and Raytheon (RTN). So do many, many others - thankfully: https://canadiandimension.com/articles/view/the-soaring-prof...

All paid for by taxpayers so overall a net cost which is what matters to the average citizen.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#334

Post by herbst »

wiseowise wrote: post #291
herbst wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am totally with you. There is so much propaganda in this war it's borderline impossible to get anything but a cloudy view on things. Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much. Sure RT was full of bullshit, but so are many local papers, Facebook and everything else. People taking clear sides when a…

> Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much. Citation needed.

Kinda broad statement for a direct citation. However feel free to browse the Wikipedia article about the Ukraine many if not most of their recent crimes are listed there.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#335

Post by ssl232 »

numeric83 wrote: post #222
ssl232 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in order to better their livelihoods and stop facing the former-USSR-level of poverty. I didn't say we should dictate policy to Ukraine - they're a sovereign state like the rest of us. That doesn…

I think it's probably accepted that NATO indicated to Ukraine very early on that the chances of it joining were a distant dream. Not withstanding complications relating to deep cultural and historical connections between Russia and Ukraine there were basic issues of governance, market regulation, military preparedness, etc. It's not a case of "we'd like to join NATO!" - "Sure, come on in!". However, what NATO couldn'…

Interesting points. I think I agree with your last one. However, a NATO member has not actually been attacked so it's "merely" the spirit of the alliance that's been tarnished. And at the same time the Russian army has been humiliated, so seems like this whole thing has been lose-lose.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#336

Post by RandomLensman »

aiilns wrote: post #306
RandomLensman wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) NATO has no territorial desires on Russia. Eastern members do have bad historic experiences with Russia so they joined a defensive alliance 2) Cuba was "allowed" to stay in the Eastern block (but not to host nuclear weapons). Ukraine was not "allowed" to join NATO, by comparison 3) Russia has nuclear/nuclear capable weapons inside NATO (Kaliningrad), not the other way around. EDIT: Kaliningrad is a Russian exclave…

1) Isn't NATO a product of the cold war, meant to stand as an alliance against the USSR? A defense alliance must be, by definition, against someone, be it Russia or China. And isn't it a tool for the US (mainly) to serve their interests & enforce their will around the world? See Kosovo, Afghanistan, Libya. 2) "Allowed" yes, disregarding the sanctions/embargo in place these last 60 years. 3) My geography knowledge is…

1) Of course, joining NATO is picking a side.

2) But still Cuba was permitted to stay within the Eastern block. Why did Russia not choose to just sanction Ukraine then but allow NATO membership (that would the comparison)

3) Yes, of course, but really surrounded by NATO members. Could you imagine Russia permitting a NATO exclave inside Russia? And Russia certainly makes it sound like they have nuclear weapons there (see their latest drill last? week)

Russia/Russian government is allowed to perceive it any way he wants, but that might not dictate NATO policy.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#337

Post by desproges »

Archelaos wrote: post #151
alkonaut wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has argued that having NATO on its borders is a threat. Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. But Russian domestic politics is always using a narrative of being a victim and having risk of being invaded. The Second World War doesn’t exist in Russian storytelling. The great patriotic war on the other hand, conveniently started in the 40s. The Finnish borde…

NATO is a devensive alliance. It is no threat for a peaceful Russia at all. All else is propaganda. A really democratic Russia may even join NATO some day. (As Western Germany did ten years after the Nazis.)

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#338

Post by mcv »

aa-jv wrote: post #195
klausjensen wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflection. Neighbours of Russia want to join NATO to prevent Russia invading them. And for good reason. No "mysterious" CIA-manipulation needed.

Quoted post unavailable.

Not all media is owned by weapon manufacturers. There's tons of independent media here, unlike in Russia, where the government dictates what the media are allowed to say. They can't call the war a war, for example. That is propaganda. The West allows all viewpoints, including the Russian one. It's just that the Russian propaganda doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Also, Iraq was not a NATO war. It was just the US and UK, and many NATO members opposed it. I would certainly still like to see the US war crimes in Iraq prosecuted. But that does not in any way justify the Russian invasion or war crimes. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#339

Post by lnxg33k1 »

andruby wrote: post #85
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#340

Post by omega3 »

hugg wrote: post #299
omega3 wrote: post #55

Let's hope that Sweden will also follow suit.

I hope not. To me it seems very unnecessary (please hear me out), first of all, it seems to be the common idea that Russia is losing the war, has a weak military, cannot invade another country successfully, but at the same time, we should be afraid of them? I've heard the argument that it's the nukes that we should be afraid of, but does joining NATO really mean that they will surely not use them? I also assume that…

> we should be afraid of them?

If all the war crimes, targeting of infrastructure, civilians, hospitals, forced deportation, looting, torture, setting up of artificial breakaway states hasn't so far convinced you then I'm afraid nothing ever will.

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