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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#291

Post by wiseowise »

herbst wrote: post #215
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…

I am totally with you. There is so much propaganda in this war it's borderline impossible to get anything but a cloudy view on things. Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much. Sure RT was full of bullshit, but so are many local papers, Facebook and everything else. People taking clear sides when a…

> Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much.

Citation needed.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#292

Post by fsloth »

donthellbanme wrote: post #164
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

Quoted post unavailable.

Boy I have good news for you! If you are worried of the finance of Finland joining NATO - This will be a strategic partnership, not aid.

It's a "good deal" for both sides.

Finland will be an asset for NATO, not a cost. We already have a credible NATO compatible military. We just don't have nukes, and in wartime materiel replenishment would be a problem.

https://www.ft.com/content/e85825af-5172-44c4-9662-f7ceca40e...

Also Finland just bough 64 F-35:s - as a Finnish tax payer for US industry - you are welcome.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#293

Post by Wildgoose »

kukkeliskuu wrote: post #116
2000UltraDeluxe wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, there was little doubt a Finnish application was on the way. From what I can tell from Swedish media, it's more or less decided there aswell. Both Finland and Sweden signed a defence agreement with the UK yesterday. Norwegian newspapers has claimed Denmark, Iceland and Norway are also going to offer Finland and Sweden military aid in case of Russian shenanigans during the application process. That leaves both Fin…

Actually it is not a contract, because it is not contractually binding. It is more a promise to help. And Churchill promised to help Finland in WW2 and did not keep his promise.

That's not true. Churchill was not Prime Minister when the Soviet Union invaded Finland.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#294

Post by suture »

donthellbanme wrote: post #164
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#295

Post by voidfunc »

klausjensen wrote: post #70
NicoJuicy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Germany said they will be under protection from NATO as soon as they start the procedure.

UK has also made written guarantees to protect Finland (and Sweden) during the application process. In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members.

Kinda my thought here. Finland and Sweden in NATO formalizes some stuff but I am highly confident if they were attacked and not in NATO we would probably still show up. They are close allies.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#296

Post by Wildgoose »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #93
klausjensen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has also made written guarantees to protect Finland (and Sweden) during the application process. In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members.

> In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members. Really? Why is this true of Finland but not Ukraine?

Because Ukraine was/is in a state of Civil War.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#297

Post by vitus »

zx85wes wrote: post #224
mihaaly wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also said that russian energy ties are harmful. They also said that Russian energy ties are essential. They also said that they want Euro for the Hungarian economy. They also said that switching to Euro is no good for the Hungarian economy. They said that the EU membership is important to Hungary. They also said that Brussels is the enemy. They stated that liberalism is a core value for them. They also stated th…

I looked for sources for the last and 'illiberal' quotes. Can you provide them?

Re: illiberalism:

https://budapestbeacon.com/full-text-of-viktor-orbans-speech...

"in this sense, the new state that we are building is an illiberal state, a non-liberal state. It does not deny foundational values of liberalism, as freedom, etc.. But it does not make this ideology a central element of state organization, but applies a specific, national, particular approach in its stead."

https://miniszterelnok.hu/prime-minister-viktor-orbans-speec...

"Let us confidently declare that Christian democracy is not liberal. Liberal democracy is liberal, while Christian democracy is, by definition, not liberal: it is, if you like, illiberal." (Orban then stands that up on three pillars: prioritizing Christian culture, being anti-immigration, and the Christian family model.)

(There are almost assuredly more speeches.)

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#298

Post by ahoka »

ssl232 wrote: post #52

Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…

My main problem with these "buffer zone" arguments is that I'm from one of those countries, and I don't want my people be some kind of sacrificial second class citizens of Europe, just so other countries can have it easy.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#299

Post by hugg »

omega3 wrote: post #55

Let's hope that Sweden will also follow suit.

I hope not. To me it seems very unnecessary (please hear me out), first of all, it seems to be the common idea that Russia is losing the war, has a weak military, cannot invade another country successfully, but at the same time, we should be afraid of them? I've heard the argument that it's the nukes that we should be afraid of, but does joining NATO really mean that they will surely not use them? I also assume that if they did use the nukes, they would target NATO countries anyway.

Don't get me wrong I do not support the war started by Russia AT ALL

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#300

Post by gpderetta »

Ciantic wrote: post #60

For some background, in 1990s Russian president Boris Yeltsin said to Finns, you never need to fear again. That fear came back when war started, but it became also political before the war. On December 2021 Putin stated that Finland & Sweden should not join NATO. Finnish President talked to him and noticed a change in Putin, that he was serious. Invasion of Ukraine had not started in December 2021 yet, but it became…

I thought that Sweden and, primarily, Finland joining NATO was a foregone conclusion the moment Russia invaded.
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