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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#241

Post by trash8435798 »

ssl232 wrote: post #182
jusssi wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Finnish point of view the case for NATO has become quite clear. There were a number of reasons why we used to believe Russia won't be invading us any time soon. 1. The invader would suffer a massive penalty for their reputation: didn't stop them from invading Ukraine. 2. The invader would be hit with massive economic sanctions: see 1. 3. Even unassisted, we would be able to mount a defense that can cause maj…

Those are good points to that I hadn't considered. As a Finn (?), what are your feelings with regards to your historical neutrality being broken by joining NATO? Surely many Finnish politicians past and present will have fought hard for that to remain the case and this will be breaking that precedent.

>As a Finn (?), what are your feelings with regards to your historical neutrality being broken by joining NATO?

At least for a younger generation, that isn't a big deal at all. Finnish neutrality was realpolitik after WW2 and pretty much everyone understands that Russia/Soviet Union is/was our only realistic enemy in case of war. Neutrality is bigger thing in Sweden as they managed to skip both WWs.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#242

Post by aa-jv »

klausjensen wrote: post #206
aa-jv wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Again, you are just deflecting, trying to distract from the core: The neighbours of Russia do not want to be invaded by Russia, so they join NATO.

It could as easily be stated that nations join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes, and share its war treasures. For the same reason that immigrants come to USA - because that's not where the bombs are falling.

Both statements are valid, and have just as much evidence supporting them.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#244

Post by klibertp »

donthellbanme wrote: post #164
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

Quoted post unavailable.

This post was dead when I stumbled upon it. I don't agree with it, for the obvious reasons, including the fact that I'm not American. Yet, my understanding is that this kind of opinion is shared by a large number of US citizens. I don't believe censoring it is the correct way to deal with it - it's not even off-topic as we discuss NATO membership in the first place.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#245

Post by NicoJuicy »

andruby wrote: post #85
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.

Hungary has said they will not oppose.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#246

Post by shimonabi »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #69
thematrixturtle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

The Croat president has publicly said he will veto new members if the status of the Croat minority in Bosnia and Herzegovina is not improved legally.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/croat-p...

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#247

Post by refurb »

golergka wrote: post #8
fsloth wrote: post #2

There was some discussion on plausible NATO membership of Finland and Sweden. At that point the disucssion was based on guestimates from media. But now it's official. This is not the NATO membership application, but a statement from the political leadership in Finland that they support and suggest parliament proceeds with the application process with maximum urgency. The President and Prime Minister of Finland have p…

Putin's pan to not let NATO on Russian borders worked out great.

If anyone looks back at wars like WW1, Korea War, even the US escalation of the Vietnam War and wonders how the hell it got to that point - wonder no more.

The oneupmanship rarely works out well between major powers.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#248

Post by aa-jv »

rocqua wrote: post #211
aa-jv wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shall we really rattle off a list of political persecution in the USA? Because, honestly, you can't be so ignorant .. YES: The WEST DOES have political persecution the way Russia does. There is, literally, NO DIFFERENCE. Of course, we don't have evidence of a thousand Russian secret torture sites, like we do for the CIA (thanks Julian, thanks Edward), so there is some validity to the position that in fact the Wests'…

> The WEST DOES have political persecution the way Russia does. There is, literally, NO DIFFERENCE. There is a difference between "the west persecutes" and "the west is just as bad as Russia". I think just because the west does something bad does not immediately put them on the same level as Russia. Yes, both sides claim they are nigh-perfect and the other side is the worst ever. Just because both sides aren't near p…

Yemen? Somalia?

Genocide is happening under NATO's watchful gaze, from its bases, with its resources.

Again: the moral authority you claim, simply does not exist.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#249

Post by antris »

fsloth wrote: post #212
antris wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Translation: During the spring, there has been an important discussion about Finland's possible NATO membership This is a very generous description of what happened. There has been air of forced consensus in the "discussion" between media, politicians and people on social media. People have been branded as "putinist" or "playing into Putin's hand" for merely suggesting that the decision shouldn't be rushed, and that…

The process was quite fast mainly because most Finns are very pragmatic, clearheaded people and intuitively understood how the rules of the game had changed. You can't game a 76% support for any cause in a few months in a liberal democracy. The root of the matter is that without NATO membership conscription would have become morally untenable. And hence the backbone of Finnish defence would have collapsed leading to…

>You can't game a 76% support for any cause in a few months in a liberal democracy.

I suggest reading on Manufacturing Consent.

People living in liberal democracies are swayed all the time. It has happened over and over again. Probably the most notable example being USA after 9/11. Bush approval rating spiked from 60% to 92%. When scary things happen, media coverage and politicians can together make drastic changes to public opinion.

There are wars and crises going on in the world all the time, and media's coverage of them or the lack thereof do change peoples minds on whether they matter or what should be done about them.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#250

Post by herbst »

phatfish wrote: post #233
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you. i am not sympathizing with anyone for that matter. i am pointing out what i observe.... you know when america invaded iraq for "WMDs" and they turned out to be nothing and literally nothing happened? "strong anger" does not equate to waging a war against america like its being done against russia. let me ask you, you and me are neither americans nor russians. did the world care when america invaded afghani…

Do you really need to ask why? Because Ukraine is on the doorstep of Europe, that's why Europeans care more, and by proxy the US. As for Iraq, yes people did care, there were large protests in London and Tony Blair is still hated by the general public in the UK. I don't know the real feeling in the US. The UK government didn't listen because Tony wanted his ego boost on the world stage. The only NATO backed war of th…

> Because Ukraine is on the doorstep of Europe, that's why Europeans care more, and by proxy the US.

But only since Russia started invading. When news about Ukraine were still all about their corrupt government, breaking human rights, their horrible prisons and more like that nobody thought Ukraine to to 'close' or anything.

It's obvious the whole perception of Ukraine just suddenly changed because Russia is the bad guy.

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