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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#151

Post by Archelaos »

alkonaut wrote: post #42
skrebbel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO has been on Russian borders for almost 2 decades (and way longer if you include Norway, but that border is arguably too remote to really count). So what plan, exactly?

Russia has argued that having NATO on its borders is a threat. Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. But Russian domestic politics is always using a narrative of being a victim and having risk of being invaded. The Second World War doesn’t exist in Russian storytelling. The great patriotic war on the other hand, conveniently started in the 40s. The Finnish borde…

NATO is a devensive alliance. It is no threat for a peaceful Russia at all. All else is propaganda. A really democratic Russia may even join NATO some day. (As Western Germany did ten years after the Nazis.)

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#152

Post by aa-jv »

klausjensen wrote: post #150
aa-jv wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Obviously these comments make no sense. Its not so obvious if you've been paying attention to NATO expansion, as compared to NATO promises. NATO bases have been being used to launch crimes against humanity and war crimes (with seeming impunity) for decades - the Russians have good reasons to want NATO to stand down. The West has a long and sordid history of committing war crimes, and then ignoring their war criminal…

NATO "expanded" when sovereign, democratic countries CHOSE to apply for NATO-membership, completely voluntarily, because they beleive it was and is the best deterrent for Russia to invade them. A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. Always leaving a trail of warcrimes, poverty, rapes, murdered and tortured civilians etc. None of these countries were NATO members. No wond…

>completely volutarily

The CIA has entered the chat.

>A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia.

I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed.

The Russians know this about NATO, even if Americans don't.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#153

Post by cycomanic »

I'm generally quite critical of NATO, but I would argue that once Putin threatened consequences if Finland or Sweden join NATO he pretty much forced their hands. Despite the skepticism towards NATO in both countries and "pride of neutrality" (for lack of a better term) in Sweden in particular, there is an even stronger wariness toward Russia, and you really don't want to yield to the bullying, because were does it end?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#154

Post by emteycz »

blibble wrote: post #73
ssl232 wrote: post #52

Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…

> The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free this was likely done to fix the race condition of starting the application process vs being under the alliance umbrella

It was explicitly done for that reason. US does the same for Sweden.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#155

Post by jq-r »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #92
greencore wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current Croatia's president Zoran Milanović is planning to veto this. Parliament and PM is against veto.

What’s his rationale?

To a populistic loudmouth like he is, he doesn't need a good argument. Also he is trying to relativise war in Ukraine with a lot of Russian style propaganda. Don’t think he has any say in it though. At the same time he is in open conflict for months with the prime minister who wields real power. So if one says one thing the other will say the opposite and call the other bad names. Unfortunately the prime minister is corrupted through and through, as the whole party which forms the government. So citizens are just between the rock and a hard place since the war ended in 1995.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#156

Post by baud147258 »

nonameking2026 wrote: post #108
sph wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions. I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.

They can do a lot of things. None which are good for Russia but their leaders might perceive this as a direct threat to their sovereignty and take extreme measures. Either they stop this now or it's all over anyway. This is reckless - we need to start a path of de-escalation - give Putin an offramp. Get to back to calm waters. Then let diplomats do their little dances until there is a hopefully more reasonable people…

If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#157

Post by dmos62 »

serpix wrote: post #109

As a Finnish citizen, reservist this has been a very emotional spring. Both of my grandfathers were in the war with Russia. Both of my grandmothers had to leave and burn their homes in the areas annexed by Russia. Twice. I am 100% for Nato.

Why did your family burn its homes as they were leaving? To deny it to Russian (or collaborator) settlers?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#158

Post by weberer »

andruby wrote: post #85
M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.

He is certainly not on Russia's side in this conflict.

https://hungarytoday.hu/orban-hungary-ukraine-conflict-eu/

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#159

Post by ginko »

jgrahamc wrote: post #144
tremon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has been threatening Finland/Sweden with consequences for years. As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech with Boris Johnson a few days ago, Russia has shown with Ukraine that complying with Russia's threats is not a guarantee that the future will be consequence-free.

As the Finnish PM mentioned in his speech I am pretty sure Sanna Marin is a woman.

I think GP was talking about the Finnish president's speech, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLNBxpo8zY

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#160

Post by pelario »

fsloth wrote: post #9
thinkingemote wrote: post #4

Has Finland significant pro-Russian politicians? Or at least pro before February 2022? I visited there a while ago and there was a feel of Russian friendliness at the least with significant independence on the streets. But that's just my feelings and I wasn't paying attention back then.

The Finnish political system was infiltrated by Russian assets (willing or just useful fools) for decades [0]. Luckily this has abated in the last decades. The people have deep suspicion of the Russian state but no particular animosity towards russian people in general. Most finns, especially the young generations, feel most affinity towards west in every sense. The Finnish language is Finno-Ugric and unrelated to sl…

> The Finnish political system was infiltrated by Russian assets (willing or just useful fools) for decades [0]

I just read the whole [0] reference, and I could not find anything related to your claim. Can you give specific examples ? Or can you explain how the article supports your claim ?

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