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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#551

Post by curmudgeon22 »

mateo411 wrote: post #524
bastardoperator wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I used to think developers in tech did well, then I worked with some really good sales people in tech and realized they're making WAY more on top free vacations and spiff (even more money) opportunities. It's night and day. We've heard about developers making upwards of 500K, I've seen sales people make triple on a single deal with similar deals lined up for following quarters. It is insane, and most de…

There is a little more variance in sales people's earnings, since it's based on commission. Their base salary is probably pretty paltry. To do a proper comparison you want to look at OTE(on target earnings), that's how much they earn if they hit their numbers.

The sales people in tech i know get pretty good base pay ($150-250K).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#552

Post by TooKool4This »

scarface74 wrote: post #408
codefreeordie wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually so much of why people feel underpaid. Pay varies incredibly widely. The job also varies quite widely, but when you're not in the job, IC sounds a lot like IC. You could be an IC with a total compensation of $80k (and actually getting $80k), you could be an IC with a TC of $300k (and actually getting $300k), and you could be an IC with a TC of $750k (and actually getting something like $200k-250k becau…

If your employee is private, it is silly to count non liquid statistically meaningless “equity” as part of your compensation. “compensation” is something I can trade for cash once I have earned it and then exchange for good and services.

It’s also incorrect to assume the expected value of the equity is zero. It’s much more useful to model it as E(x)=x*p(x), especially if you have some useful information on estimating p(x) that a person working at a startup might.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#553

Post by LadyCailin »

ryandrake wrote: post #424
lhorie wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with countering averages with anecdotes is that neither really paints a holistic picture of the demand pyramid. Back of napkin calculations say around 4% of US developers work at the FAANGMULAs, meaning that some 29 out 30 dev earnings are somewhere lower in the pay scale. But 1 out of 30 isn't an astronomically small number, so you could very well be one of those 300k TC people surrounded by others in that…

> The thing with countering averages with anecdotes is that neither really paints a holistic picture of the demand pyramid. Back of napkin calculations say around 4% of US developers work at the FAANGMULAs, meaning that some 29 out 30 dev earnings are somewhere lower in the pay scale. Not only FAANGABCDEF, but "Staff+, with specialized skills, at FAANGABCDEF, in a small number of specific metro areas". If 1 software…

I still think it’s an interesting data point though, which only showing average salaries doesn’t reveal. But yeah, it would be nice to see min/max/median in geography, and just get the more raw data.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#554

Post by scarface74 »

thrwy_ywrht wrote: post #538
scarface74 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your employee is private, it is silly to count non liquid statistically meaningless “equity” as part of your compensation. “compensation” is something I can trade for cash once I have earned it and then exchange for good and services.

It's also silly to discount the value of non-liquid equity to zero, unless you think there is literally zero chance of experiencing a liquidity event.

If only 1 out of 10 startups “succeed” where success is defined by “the investors got their money back”. What are he chances for you as an employee getting any meaningful returns? The investors are well diversified, you aren’t as an employee.

Besides that, it takes the average startup 7-10 years to exit. As opposed to a public company where you can diversify your risk every three to six months depending on your vesting schedule.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#555

Post by queuebert »

bastardoperator wrote: post #452
ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

To be honest, I used to think developers in tech did well, then I worked with some really good sales people in tech and realized they're making WAY more on top free vacations and spiff (even more money) opportunities. It's night and day. We've heard about developers making upwards of 500K, I've seen sales people make triple on a single deal with similar deals lined up for following quarters. It is insane, and most de…

A lot of the people in Reddit's fatFIRE community got there through software or tech sales.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#556

Post by [deleted] »

lmeyerov wrote: post #530
weatherlite wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not really comparing whose situation is better but since you brought it up: Doctors in general earn more but work much much harder. They also have much much better job security, it is unheard of for a doctor to be considered obsolete at his 50s. I wouldn't want the life of a doctor personally but financially it is the better field imo, on average.

Maybe put differently: You can be 9-5 FAANG type and retire as early as 40. In contrast, due to the delayed paycheck for specialists... they're looking at another 10 years after that. Likewise, at FAANG, you're living large as a 20-something, while specialists are running on debt & tiny stipends while going through crazy stress: you don't get to enjoy that paycheck while in your prime. There are always outliers, but…

[deleted]

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#557

Post by juve1996 »

RussianCow wrote: post #540
juve1996 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the cost of housing and rents in most US cities that you'd actually want to live in. The others? Forget about public transit. Need a car, and car insurance, and car maintenance. And the reality is most tech jobs don't really pay as much as you think. For the good remote jobs you'll be competing with people who are simply better than you ,so good luck.

Even taking all of those things into consideration, $200k in SF is better than $100k pretty much anywhere else. > And the reality is most tech jobs don't really pay as much as you think. For the good remote jobs you'll be competing with people who are simply better than you ,so good luck. I guess it depends on what "you think" tech jobs pay, but this has not been my experience. If you're even half-decent, there are c…

> Even taking all of those things into consideration, $200k in SF is better than $100k pretty much anywhere else.

I don't know if that's true. The cost of living, in say, Pittsburgh, is 50% that of San Francisco, so at best it's equivalent. And you can actually get a house and a yard there.

> I guess it depends on what "you think" tech jobs pay, but this has not been my experience. If you're even half-decent, there are countless remote software engineering opportunities that pay well above $100k, which is a great salary if you're not comparing it with the top end of the industry. Most companies right now are facing a labor shortage, so it's far easier to get a remote job as a SWE than ever before.

"You think" that there are a lot of "half-decent" engineers out there. There aren't. The types of engineers making big bucks are not easily replicable. If it was so easy to become a half decent engineer we wouldn't need the song and dance of tech interviews which are an absolute joke.

Companies have made the hiring process HARDER not EASIER. This tells that the market is flooded with subpar candidates.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#558

Post by refurb »

juve1996 wrote: post #237
refurb wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some jobs sure, but tech job? The delta is >$100,000USD/yr, which after tax might be $70,000 which pays for all that stuff you get for free or subsidized in Europe, plus some left over .

Look at the cost of housing and rents in most US cities that you'd actually want to live in. The others? Forget about public transit. Need a car, and car insurance, and car maintenance. And the reality is most tech jobs don't really pay as much as you think. For the good remote jobs you'll be competing with people who are simply better than you ,so good luck.

Look at the cost of housing of Western European cities you'd actually want to live in. My understanding is they are as high, if not higher than the US.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#559

Post by scarface74 »

TooKool4This wrote: post #552
scarface74 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your employee is private, it is silly to count non liquid statistically meaningless “equity” as part of your compensation. “compensation” is something I can trade for cash once I have earned it and then exchange for good and services.

It’s also incorrect to assume the expected value of the equity is zero. It’s much more useful to model it as E(x)=x*p(x), especially if you have some useful information on estimating p(x) that a person working at a startup might.

Every startup thinks their company is going to be successful. No matter what the person thinks who is working their, they don’t know when the investors will cut their losses or when the market isn’t hungry for money losing startups and the VCs have to put off going public…like now.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#560

Post by juve1996 »

refurb wrote: post #558
juve1996 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the cost of housing and rents in most US cities that you'd actually want to live in. The others? Forget about public transit. Need a car, and car insurance, and car maintenance. And the reality is most tech jobs don't really pay as much as you think. For the good remote jobs you'll be competing with people who are simply better than you ,so good luck.

Look at the cost of housing of Western European cities you'd actually want to live in. My understanding is they are as high, if not higher than the US.

I did - the rents are cheaper, costs overall are cheaper, there are more amenities, you aren't nearly as reliant on cars, etc.

This is all out there online. Ultimately it comes out in the wash. If you get lucky and don't get fired in the US and you're a 10x dev, it's obviously better in the US. Most aren't in that boat.

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