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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#391

Post by cactus2093 »

ryandrake wrote: post #312
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

Your example is not actually that crazy at FAANG level companies. I know a lot of people in their early 30's that are L6 or even L7 at big tech companies, maybe they've changed jobs every 2 years on average in their career which is well under 9 times, and those level of roles have a total comp of 500k-750k/yr. With a 4-year stock grant and some luck on the stock performance in that time, that can turn into well over $1M/yr in years 3 & 4 at the company.

You're right that there's a ceiling somewhere, but the ceiling is (or at least has been) ludicrously high for the past decade or so in big tech in the US.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#392

Post by FabHK »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #148
bigcat12345678 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does 3X salary rule come from?

Also checkout the "rule of 72" if this stuff tickles you. It is also a rough estimate that gets used in place of more complex formulas. (Actually closer to 69/70 but 72 makes things cleaner)

The 72 is optimised, it seems to me, for annual compounding with percentages from 5% to 10% (as ln(2)/ln(1.08)*8 = 72.051746736), while, as you point out correctly, ln(2) = 0.69314718, so for continuous compounding 69 would be better indeed.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#393

Post by Loudergood »

Nextgrid wrote: post #152
sgt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£95k is very decent in the countryside but in London that's nothing to write home about, is it? I don't live in London or even the UK, so my statement is just based on friends living there.

Keep in mind that taxes eat quite a bit of that (seemingly more so than in the US).

How does that balance out with health insurance premiums?

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#394

Post by giantg2 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #223
giantg2 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is there any reason why these two values should be the same?" Are you producing the same value for the company as you did last year? If inflation is higher, then you are receiving less value via your pay from producing the same or more value for the company.

Inflation is a measure of the price of the basket of goods. Let's say all prices stay the same except that gasoline is up 100%. This will be measured as "overall inflation" but it isn't like the business you are working for is raising prices or taking in more revenue than before. If everybody says "well inflation is X% so we need to raise prices and salaries by X%" then inflation will necessarily rise beyond X% becau…

That basket of goods is supposed to be representative of a person's needs (although there is debate about that). If the person's aggregate purchasing power across the basket went down, then the value of their salary went down. They're receiving less value for doing the same work.

Most things are interconnected. Yes, gas might not directly affect a specific company, but it will eventually due to things like inputs, shipping, etc going up. And yes, even the people on the supplier side getting raises will affect it.

"People like to think of X% inflation meaning that every dollar is worth less"

At an aggregate level that is how it works. The basket of goods costs more. The person's purchasing power has been reduced. The the number of dollars needed to purchase the same basket of goods is higher. So yes, the dollar is worth less. As you point out, not every product costs more, but most do eventually as the effects ripple (some go down, but usually though changes in technology/production/etc).

I understand that the company needs to stay competitive and they would need to increase revenue to increase salary. Usually that isn't a large enough increase to affect competitive prices for the actual workers (executives and management are different). Of course that assumes being competitive with other onshore companies. If competing with offshore companies in LCOL areas, then it's going to be nearly impossible to compete (see things like steel production in the US).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#395

Post by Finnucane »

enduser wrote: post #286
Finnucane wrote: post #252

I'd guess a lot of people, regardless of industry, feel underpaid. Simply for the reason that they are. Growing inequality is real, over the last few decades an ever increasing portion of the productivity gain of the economy goes to a smaller portion of the people. We do the work, others get the profit.

Everyone seems to want something other than what they already have, and most assume more is better.

Yes, but that's always true and the rising spread of inequality is a problem of the last few decades.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#396

Post by jcadam »

crispyambulance wrote: post #384
thoughtpalette wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to anecdotal reasons, going to have to disagree. Last switch was a 39% increase at 11 years in industry. The market is hot. Most of my friends/colleagues have seen a similar increase the last year. Obviously market, location, expertise will vary, etc. YMMV.

> YMMV. YMMV is right. There's a lot of factors here. It's almost meaningless to take averages without qualifying those against a fairly large number of conditions. Total comp North of 300K for an IC sounds like science fiction to many folks which aren't in Silicon Valley, in certain fields, and in certain companies.

It's not what you make, it's what you keep. That 300K+ in SV comes coupled to an extreme cost of living. :)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#397

Post by codefreeordie »

crispyambulance wrote: post #384
thoughtpalette wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to anecdotal reasons, going to have to disagree. Last switch was a 39% increase at 11 years in industry. The market is hot. Most of my friends/colleagues have seen a similar increase the last year. Obviously market, location, expertise will vary, etc. YMMV.

> YMMV. YMMV is right. There's a lot of factors here. It's almost meaningless to take averages without qualifying those against a fairly large number of conditions. Total comp North of 300K for an IC sounds like science fiction to many folks which aren't in Silicon Valley, in certain fields, and in certain companies.

That's actually so much of why people feel underpaid. Pay varies incredibly widely. The job also varies quite widely, but when you're not in the job, IC sounds a lot like IC. You could be an IC with a total compensation of $80k (and actually getting $80k), you could be an IC with a TC of $300k (and actually getting $300k), and you could be an IC with a TC of $750k (and actually getting something like $200k-250k because your employer is private and your equity is all hypothetical)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#398

Post by etempleton »

Maybe some feel underpaid because some of these companies work environments are terrible. Amazon’s dramatic increase in base pay is almost an acknowledgment that it is not a very nice place to work.

People are generally willing to accept less pay for work/life balance, job security, and non-toxic work environements.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#399

Post by jason0597 »

emteycz wrote: post #177
jason0597 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse my reply, but he told you: >"you're not special" and you replied with >"they literally begged me to work for them" >"they just try to make their company look like the best place while apologizing profusely for their limited budget" Do you not see how your 2 comments here give off the impression that you feel special? Maybe you don't feel special (like you explicitly say), but those two comments especially give…

I don't feel special because the same thing applies to every programmer I know. How could I in any way feel special when I'm just the same as others? I said it because I wanted you to feel how the market is, not because it makes me special. And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people. To…

> "And I don't think that a job makes a person special, why would it? It's just a job. I work on a hot market, someone else does not - that doesn't make any of us special people."

Well, a job takes up roughly 1/3 of our working lives (minus 2/3 for sleep (8hrs) and "leisure" (8hrs)), so I would say that it defines us very much, and it's a lot more than "just a job". A "job" is stacking shelves at Tesco or driving lorries for Amazon. Tech is a career (and a lifestyle, given how much it seeps into one's personal life e.g. watching Defcon before bed, I doubt lorry drives watch Lorrycon talks before bed...)

As for your other point, fair enough, point taken.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#400

Post by jcadam »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #336
ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

This is something I don't think gets discussed enough. In my first 10 years of career I basically doubled my salary, by moving every 2-3 years, but I also now know I am pretty much hitting a plateau, anytime I talk with recruiters and talk about the salary I'd like to move which is about 10-20% (which is pretty reasonable given the benefits I got now) then people express reservations. Some people will end up making 2…

15 years in. Stuck at 200K, and I doubt that's going to go up much because the layoffs have started and we're heading back into "lucky to have a job" territory.
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