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European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

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Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#121

Post by BlargMcLarg »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #106
kingcharles wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so 1984. Even if this remotely worked, how would they tell between actual minors and adults roleplaying?

> This is so 1984 1984 has never been about this. It's about the weaknesses of men, that would gladly change a reduction of the chocolate ration into an increase, because it's their job to lie and alter the past, believing they are doing god's work. Also, in 1984 surveillance is secret, not publicly stated in a formal document visible by everybody. Better examples of 1984 in action: the DDR, the NSA.

"Big Brother" was a pretty big part of 1984, and I definitely have gotten "Big Brother" vibes from the EU these last few years, under the pretense of "we know better than you and we want to protect you".

Having a good will doesn't make it okay for the EU to become a helicopter parent, nor do I like the prospect of that good will evaporating and them having access to what is effectively more and more surveillance.

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#122

Post by grishka »

Abroszka wrote: post #98
grnmamba wrote: post #54

This is the true face of the EU. Anyone who opposes it will be branded as a child molester. Even if the parliament rejects this proposal, the next power hungry authoritarian can simply try again, until eventually one parliament will pass it. You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the EU. There is no middle ground.

EU has nothing to do with it. Just look at UK, outside the EU still doing the same thing. It's a global trend. It's more or less irrelevant what kind of country you live in, people are pushing to end E2E encryption.

People or governments?

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#123

Post by rad_gruchalski »

ephbit wrote: post #81
davidkunz wrote: post #41

Always the same argument to open doors for mass surveillance. https://youtu.be/RybNI0KB1bg

Totally off topic ... I am to a certain degree curious what video hides behind this link. Maybe I'd even want to watch it. But at the same time I am too turned off by the fact that I'd actually need to visit the link just to learn the title of this video to actually do the click. Ever felt the same?

The title is: The Simpsons - Helen Lovejoy - Think of the children

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#124

Post by baud147258 »

fsckboy wrote: post #51
alaricus wrote: post #13

"Protecting kids" is a load of nonsense. It's just a convenient excuse and sounds much better than "we want to read your private stuff".

the headline is horribly biased (could we change it to "think of the children!"?) but it seems to me if you want to protect children from pedos that you would need to read both of their email, so I don't understand how breaking privacy threatens children.

I would have though that in most (all?) EU countries, there's already laws in place to allow law enforcement to read private correspondence of suspects. From my reading, this law would also "allow the widespread scanning of people’s private communications" (from an article linked in the post https://edri.org/our-work/european-commissions-online-csam-p...), so not necessarily limited to suspects

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#125

Post by baud147258 »

b-x wrote: post #86
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cameras inside all corners in all churches in the continent, Because that's how you protect people privacy, right??? Why not put military personnel in every corner of every street and check if people have the "approved by the government" tattoo on their wrists?

> Because that's how you protect people privacy, right??? I'm not promoting such practices. In fact, I was just trying to use the legislators logic: if they are truthful about their "protecting children" slogan, let them start their policing where the predators are most likely to be found instead of targeting the entire population.

> their policing where the predators are most likely to be found

well, the predators are more likely found in schools, which are way more numerous than (actively used) churches (and temples and synagogues and mosques...)

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#126

Post by martimarkov »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #79
Syonyk wrote: post #21

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/system/files/2022-05/Propo... This contains the text of the requirements. Search for "Grooming" and you'll find some particularly horrifying chunks regarding "scanning of conversations for content." Plus, not only known existing CSAM, but also identifying new material. Because don't you trust machine learning that can't tell the difference between a cat and a ferret to know what is a…

> You have a photo of your child in the bathtub and the police smash down your door. Reminder: Europe is not US. Nobody can smash your door here without proper authorization from a court. And even then, they would knock.

But the OP's sentiment still stands. Repetitional damage, stress, potential job loss, etc. just because you wanted to take a picture of your daughter or son in the bathtub playing with a rubber duck to send to your grandparents.

I mean my parents still have those pictures in photo albums and they have been shown multiple times to family friends or relatives - nobody has obvs objected - but there is nobody from a 3rd party with 0 context watching over their heads deciding if this is child porn or not. (Plus I think I look adorable with my duck shampoo and recently found it in the basement when doing cleanup ME.

But to extend this - maybe my neighbours think that is super wrong, maybe my employer. In it's current form the regulation allows for a lot of private data spillage to other ppl.

Even if it's just - yes wrong flag by the alog -> someone gets to see me or my children naked - wtf I'd argue that's abuse.

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#127

Post by martimarkov »

dudul wrote: post #102
boredumb wrote: post #4

Now that covid is waning, we're back to 'the kids' in order to allow governments absurd amounts of power over individuals. None of these excuses are put forth in order to further the argument, it's to create a trap for detractors and be able to label them as evil people, killing grandma, hating kids, supporting terror, etc etc.

The irony is that "the kids" is always the primary argument put forward to pass legislations that have little to do with "the kids", while the one time we had to worry about "the kids" and their mental well being, adults just decided to sacrifice them to avoid getting a bad flu.

1. Covid is a very different than the flu. After so much time - there is no excuse to make that mistake

2. There is no one time to worry about "the kids"

3. Mental well-being because they had to stay at home - from my observation highly doubt it. All teenagers I know were even more social.

4. Ever kids in kindergarten - haven't seen any mental well-being issues.

5. Mental wellbeing is not a fixed thing - that comes from the env, which in the covid situation is mainly the parents.

6. I'm not saying it was handled well but hindsight is very easy. When a global pandemic happens and you have 1B variables - something will slip.

7. I completely agree that kids should not be the thing that should slip!!

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#128

Post by martimarkov »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #112
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #32

The EU is honestly just so awful when it comes to anything relating to technology. The number of insane proposals I’ve seen from them over the years… It’s like they’ve got the worst political takes on tech from each EU country and smushed them together into a big ball of awfulness.

> The EU is honestly just so awful when it comes to anything relating to technology and yet all the scandals about breaking the privacy of users for profit or worse didn't come from EU. Maybe they are not that wrong...

[flagged]

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#129

Post by usrn »

t0bia_s wrote: post #116
usrn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With XMPP though you can use a smaller FOSS client on a desktop PC. iMessage and Signal force you to use a recent closed source client on a phone.

Try Molly for Signal on Android.

I probably won't, I don't have a signal account

Re: European Commission prefers breaking privacy to protecting kids

#130

Post by martimarkov »

I'm wondering what about deep-fake CP? With the above narrative about protecting the kids - that would not be kids harmed. Isn't that just going to then generate insane amounts of deep-fake CP if you can't get prosecuted and the abusers learn that?

My assumption is that you can't but I might be wrong - haven't read the whole document. So correct me if I'm wrong.

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