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Flutter 3

docs.flutter.dev

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Re: Flutter 3

#161

Post by mhoad »

fmakunbound wrote: post #157
the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

> I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart Why did they tie Flutter to Dart anyway?

Take a look at this video from the team that talks about this exact topic. After watching it initially it became very obvious to me why and I agree it was the right choice https://youtu.be/J5DQRPRBiFI

Re: Flutter 3

#163

Post by danans »

nickstinemates wrote: post #30
lazypenguin wrote: post #10

I have an irrational annoyance when projects claim to support "desktop UI" but then only have the most trivial of widgets commonly used in desktop applications. Where is my tree view? Data grid view? Charts? Native file dialog window? From my perspective, while I'm sure Flutter is wonderful, it fits squarely in the "mobile" UI toolkit and "basic" desktop application category.

who builds desktop applications anymore? it feels weird to say but i am starting to like them again after transitioning to basically 100% thin client/cloud services for the past 15 years.

What qualifies as a "desktop application" these days?

Is it any application designed primarily to work on a laptop or desktop form factor? A web application like SketchUp would qualify.

Is it an application whose code is only stored locally, even if they don't work well with a laptop/desktop form factor? Any number of native mobile apps would qualify.

What about a PWA that is cached locally but initially loaded via a URL?

Re: Flutter 3

#164

Post by SemanticStrengh »

mekkkkkk wrote: post #143
samwillis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. I understand that argument but 100% disagree. The web is the cross platform that runs everywhere (as in in a browser or webview). True it has many issues and some forms of it (electron) are not ideal for some use case but I believe it’s a better platform than flutter in almost every way. You say “true” cross platform and could arg…

I have yet to see a world in which local file access, background services, local notifications, timers, alarms, native media controls, etc, works as well on web as in native apps. A lot of it is there "in theory", but web tech has the achilles heel of only allowing stuff that would be safe to have in a random website that some asshat links you on twitter. Of course this is only relevant if that deeper plumbing into t…

You have yet to see a world where people update their beliefs more than once per decades. Hybrid native web apps are trivial, see e.g. Ionic capacitor plugins

Re: Flutter 3

#165

Post by mhoad »

peterangular wrote: post #75
the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

> Dart isn't horrible and is getting better, but it is still a somewhat awkward mish mash of Java and JavaScript, and I don't enjoy using it. All anecdotal: I've only met one person who was excited to work with Dart, huge Google fanatic/fanboy. Otherwise it's sorta seen as a unique language choice that makes other devs go, "oh..." The Java/ECMA ergonomics are weird, it's hard to find devs who have experience with the…

Here’s one from Google https://pub.dev/packages/functions_framework

Re: Flutter 3

#166

Post by SemanticStrengh »

mhoad wrote: post #159
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still maintain that Flutter Web is not production ready. It could have a nice niche, like games. But for real apps, it's just not as good as web. They are still re-implementing things that have existed in the web for ages, and are not going to be able to keep up. It's basically good for an applet style usage IMO. I'll keep trying it out, I think Flutter is pretty great for mobile, even desktop, but every time I use…

FWIW I kind of agree and I’m a big fan of both Flutter and the web in general. There are a couple of web platform technologies that I think are going to take Flutter web from ok to great in the next year or two including. WASM Garbage Collection is going to allow them to move from compiling to JS to WASM. They have already built a WASM compiler ready to go when it lands. WebGPU is another obvious one. Flutter is by d…

> Flutter is by definition a canvas optimised framework Not really, flutter has not the resources to develop their own 2D renderer so they use the chromium renderer for drawing. (Skia). It is canvas-like, everything is canvas-like at low level. But flutter like browsers implement retained mode rendering which is necessary for being jank free and have low energy consumption. Flutter on web canvas cannot properly do retained mode rendering.

spoiler, flutter non-web is generally slower than Ionic

Re: Flutter 3

#167

Post by LocalPCGuy »

mhoad wrote: post #159
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still maintain that Flutter Web is not production ready. It could have a nice niche, like games. But for real apps, it's just not as good as web. They are still re-implementing things that have existed in the web for ages, and are not going to be able to keep up. It's basically good for an applet style usage IMO. I'll keep trying it out, I think Flutter is pretty great for mobile, even desktop, but every time I use…

FWIW I kind of agree and I’m a big fan of both Flutter and the web in general. There are a couple of web platform technologies that I think are going to take Flutter web from ok to great in the next year or two including. WASM Garbage Collection is going to allow them to move from compiling to JS to WASM. They have already built a WASM compiler ready to go when it lands. WebGPU is another obvious one. Flutter is by d…

Yah, this is a pretty solid list of things that, if they all hit and work as we hope they do, it could enable building things with tech like Flutter and having it work well. I think that's why I generally say FlutterWeb isn't production ready and not that it'll never be. I don't care for the path they took originally, it feels like a bandaid and has a lot of issues. They may get there eventually, and I'll be happy to adjust my position when/if they do.

Re: Flutter 3

#168

Post by JyB »

sergiotapia wrote: post #24

We have a react native app and sometimes it fails to build. We go to lunch, and come back no code change now it builds. I'm just sick of the NPM/Javascript bullshit. Does Flutter avoid all of these kinds of issues? I'm this close to scrapping the whole thing.

> I'm just sick of the NPM/Javascript bullshit.

Amen

Re: Flutter 3

#169

Post by mhoad »

jonahx wrote: post #117
the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

> Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. What are your thoughts on flutter vs react native? (assuming you're only targeting phones)

One anecdote that I find compelling here is looking at how each of the parent companies think of them.

The majority of Google’s revenue is directly tied to their Ads platform.

Their mobile app is written in Flutter and the web interface is written in Dart (not flutter as flutter web support is like around a year old).

Facebook uses React on the web and abandoned react native on mobile.

Both are responsible for billions of dollars but only one passed the test.

Re: Flutter 3

#170

Post by peterangular »

JyB wrote: post #155
peterangular wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dart isn't horrible and is getting better, but it is still a somewhat awkward mish mash of Java and JavaScript, and I don't enjoy using it. All anecdotal: I've only met one person who was excited to work with Dart, huge Google fanatic/fanboy. Otherwise it's sorta seen as a unique language choice that makes other devs go, "oh..." The Java/ECMA ergonomics are weird, it's hard to find devs who have experience with the…

I may be missing something, but why would you want to build a serverless function in Dart? you want a common backend/frontend language?

I don't.

It is one of my arguments against devs trying to bring Dart into solutions. Historically, I have had colleagues push to use Dart for backend/cloud/automation work which I personally disagree with.

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