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Flutter 3

docs.flutter.dev

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Re: Flutter 3

#131

Post by LocalPCGuy »

the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

I still maintain that Flutter Web is not production ready. It could have a nice niche, like games. But for real apps, it's just not as good as web. They are still re-implementing things that have existed in the web for ages, and are not going to be able to keep up. It's basically good for an applet style usage IMO. I'll keep trying it out, I think Flutter is pretty great for mobile, even desktop, but every time I use a web app example I find issues and just shake my head at what they did.

Re: Flutter 3

#132

Post by mhoad »

msoad wrote: post #49

What are big and highly used apps that use Flutter?

Google Ads uses it on mobile which is responsible for literally billions in revenue.

Re: Flutter 3

#133

Post by LocalPCGuy »

ipnon wrote: post #11

I was hoping to see better HTML rendering. Using a single canvas to render web apps was my one turn off. Flutter is the right choice for many apps, but not for apps primarily accessed over the Web.

It is not production ready for web and I don't have much hope it ever will be. I love it for mobile, even desktop apps. But I feel they chose the wrong direction at the beginning for web and it's just trying to dig back out of that hole since then.

Re: Flutter 3

#134

Post by mhoad »

butz wrote: post #33

Does Flutter have a complete Material UI components implementation? I'd prefer to use Flutter for multi-platform support over learning new Android Compose and figuring out what to do for other platforms later.

It’s built right into it. Both material 2 and 3.

Re: Flutter 3

#135

Post by LocalPCGuy »

gitgud wrote: post #124
simulate-me wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with using a single canvas? It can be faster. Google Docs and Figma, for example, use canvas rendering

Although it may render faster, it comes at a cost, as it completely circumvents what browsers are good at. Flutter is basically just painting pixels on a canvas manually, meaning no CSS, no text selection, no text wrapping, no responsive elements, no elements without JS enabled. Many accessibility tools rely on CSS and text in HTML in order to work too. It's a huge trade-off to make, and something to be aware of.

Heavy emphasis on HUGE tradeoff. Too much for most web apps, IMO.

Re: Flutter 3

#136

Post by sofixa »

peterangular wrote: post #75
the_duke wrote: post #42

Despite many maturity issues in practice Flutter is the only realistic option for true cross platform UIs that run everywhere. Apart from Qt , but the licensing issue is a hindrance. And yes, the web backend isn't ideal, but it will improve over time. I just wish Google had built Flutter on a low level core that isn't tied to Dart, so it would be usable from other languages. Dart isn't horrible and is getting better,…

> Dart isn't horrible and is getting better, but it is still a somewhat awkward mish mash of Java and JavaScript, and I don't enjoy using it. All anecdotal: I've only met one person who was excited to work with Dart, huge Google fanatic/fanboy. Otherwise it's sorta seen as a unique language choice that makes other devs go, "oh..." The Java/ECMA ergonomics are weird, it's hard to find devs who have experience with the…

IIRC you can transpile Dart to JavaScript, so technically you can deploy it as serverless functions.

Re: Flutter 3

#138

Post by LocalPCGuy »

the_duke wrote: post #31
dmitriid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s wrong with using a single canvas You can't even select and copy text. And canvas is inaccessible to screen readers

For accessibility they create a separate DOM tree just for screen readers.

This right here should tell you why you shouldn't use Flutter for Web. The Web is pretty great for accessibility out of the box until us devs mess it up, we shouldn't use a technology that needs to completely build it from scratch to get it to work.

Re: Flutter 3

#139

Post by steve_adams_86 »

10000truths wrote: post #65
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there declarative and performant ways to synchronize a canvas with a DOM tree? Maybe the answer here is obvious but this seems like quite a bit of overhead, both for developers and the browser.

Do they need to be synchronized? I can’t imagine that a screen reader would be sensitive to millisecond-level discrepancies between canvas updates and DOM updates.

I’m not concerned about the delay between updates, it’s the correctness of the DOM and the canvas and managing interactions between the two. I might be misunderstanding the problem (or lack thereof) because I haven’t dealt with accessibility and canvas.

When it comes down to it, I have no idea how you’d indicate something is selected in the canvas and have a screen reader correctly read out the current selection from the DOM. Would DOM events communicate to the canvas how to modify state, functions to call, etc?

How would you manage focus between the canvas element and the rest of the DOM? Apologies if I’m not making sense; maybe there’s a well known pattern people use for things like this.

My understanding of accessibility relies heavily on the DOM behaving as a single document, and the idea of a sort of meta-document within it which coordinates pieces of the documents seems very complex and hard to get right.

Re: Flutter 3

#140

Post by [deleted] »

strongpigeon wrote: post #116

In case any Flutter engineer/PM is watching this thread, any update on when the Material 3 components will be released? I have an iOS Flutter app that's getting pretty popular in its niche, but I'm waiting on the Material 3 components to be there to release an Android version.

[deleted]
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