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Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

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Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt there are execs sitting around thinking that, they are wrong but I don't doubt it. There are a how slew of reasons why outsourcing fails time and time again and "poor communication" isn't very high on that list.

> I have no doubt there are execs sitting around thinking that, they are wrong but I don't doubt it. There are a how slew of reasons why outsourcing fails time and time again and "poor communication" isn't very high on that list. Poor communication a multiplying factor for all the other problems.

Having some experience with this -- poor communication comes time and time again as the number one problem both clients and outsourcing companies list as problems in their google slides during project retrospectives.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#82
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, wake me up when cheap outsourced developers actually works out. I've yet to see it. I have nothing against foreign developers but most of the outsourcing shops I've had the displeasure of working with are 0.2-0.5X developers at "only" 0.6+X of the cost. I know there are developers in other countries that can run circles around me but they aren't working for pennies. Also this mindset completely disregards thi…

> Sure, for a few years you can coast on what the developers you laid off/fired built but cracks will start to show and you can't just slot in developers like RAM sticks. This is the key point, software is a creative field - and you ultimately aren't going to get more than maintenance/routine upgrades from an outsourced firm. They simply don't care enough to want to go beyond their contract. You aren't going to be ab…

The trick here as an ambitious MBA is to carefully estimate whether you can coast long enough that you get rewarded for successfully cutting costs, but are also able to jump ship before shit hits the fan.

Leverage a series of short term wins/long term failures to rocket yourself up to the top.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#83
post #43

There was a poll on LinkedIn for tech salaries in Quebec (same timezone as New York, most people speak English well enough, good universities) and the result was that 50% make less than 100k (75k USD). Only 20% make more than 125k (96k USD). Plus the government will subsidize the salaries anywhere from 25% to 60% using tax credits (even more in video games). So it does make sense to hire here for a US based company w…

So wait -- 50% make more than 100k. Thats pretty good! Montreal isn't that expensive -- yet.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#84

'Tech industry' has offices in India, China, Canada already to exploit the cheaper labor directly.

Replace "exploit" with "pay less because the cost of living there is much lower". My colleague in India gets paid a fraction of what I make, but he is able to afford a bigger house and more luxuries. The cost of living in the Western word is out of control.

Its insane. Go live in Asia for a couple of years then come back -- you'll be shocked at how little you actually make in the West comparatively in terms of spending power.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#85
post #27

It’s more about trust than finances. Face to face and remote work within the companies legal boundaries is the safer choice. Remote work with no legal leverage is scary when you think about handing over company assets. But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times…

Nothing beats "it's cheaper". What happened to blue collar jobs in the US is coming for white collar jobs. Even if you don't do it, your competitor will and drive you out of business.

That is a good point. If I understand you correctly, a situation where someone comes to the US (for example) with deep ties to another country and knows the legal boundaries of both lands. They then have less of a trust issue farming out work to that lower wage location. Yes, I can see that happening in some cases.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#86
post #43

There was a poll on LinkedIn for tech salaries in Quebec (same timezone as New York, most people speak English well enough, good universities) and the result was that 50% make less than 100k (75k USD). Only 20% make more than 125k (96k USD). Plus the government will subsidize the salaries anywhere from 25% to 60% using tax credits (even more in video games). So it does make sense to hire here for a US based company w…

While frequenting Montreal meetups before COVID I came to realization that skilled folks work for US companies directly as contractors and thus outsourcing agencies are not needed (for them at least).

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#87
post #27

It’s more about trust than finances. Face to face and remote work within the companies legal boundaries is the safer choice. Remote work with no legal leverage is scary when you think about handing over company assets. But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times…

> But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times this ends with years of waste in other areas of the company. This works in the short term, in the same way you could probably lay off 90% of your developers and keep thinks chugging along for a couple years (albeit w…

I partially agree. Some companies are so dysfunctional contractors are the only ones getting stuff done. Some IT departments are just so slow and have so much red tape (no incentive to change the status quo - or have their hands tied for other internal political reasons) that nothing gets done as long as paychecks are cashing. I feel like this is off the main thread but none the less a reason for outsourcing in some cases may turn into a net gain for the company.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#88
post #59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the money still goes into the American economy. They buy food, housing, insurance, consumer goods, services. Immigrants are a huge financial boon because we get an adult that Americans didn't have to pay for. Prenatal care, delivery, food, childhood education, all of that gets paid for by somebody else and then we get the product of their expenditure for free. That's like every single immigrant donating one o…

We don't want them buying housing, we have a housing shortage.

More people wanting a product is a short-term price driver. If the price stays exorbitant over years and decades that is a supply-side problem that will not be fixed by slightly reducing the number of consumers.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "exploit" with "pay less because the cost of living there is much lower". My colleague in India gets paid a fraction of what I make, but he is able to afford a bigger house and more luxuries. The cost of living in the Western word is out of control.

Its insane. Go live in Asia for a couple of years then come back -- you'll be shocked at how little you actually make in the West comparatively in terms of spending power.

There is too much economic friction in the Western world, which drives up the cost of living (bad zoning laws that drive cost of housing, too much regulation...).

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times this ends with years of waste in other areas of the company. This works in the short term, in the same way you could probably lay off 90% of your developers and keep thinks chugging along for a couple years (albeit w…

I partially agree. Some companies are so dysfunctional contractors are the only ones getting stuff done. Some IT departments are just so slow and have so much red tape (no incentive to change the status quo - or have their hands tied for other internal political reasons) that nothing gets done as long as paychecks are cashing. I feel like this is off the main thread but none the less a reason for outsourcing in some…

These types of places absolutely exist but while outsourcing might see a net gain I think they'd see an even bigger gain by getting rid of the dead weight and hiring people who aren't so stale/set in their ways. As in this is a failing of management and not something that outsourcing really "fixes".

It's been my experience that companies are not willing to make these choices. I'm not saying "Bob had a bad week, let's fire him" or "Tom is going through some personal stuff and his work has slacked, let him go" but rather repeated failures with attempts to rectify them with the employee that aren't fixed. The bar to let someone go is absurdly high at some places and kills motivation for people who are doing the work "Well, John isn't doing any work and the company don't seem to care, I guess I'll stop caring as well and just coast".

At my last job I had a coworker who refused to pull their own weight. We had the same title and I (and others on the team) were producing 3x+ what they were (when this team member even did anything, 3*0 = 0). Repeated complaints to our manager fell on deaf ears even with irrefutable evidence of this team member doing practically nothing. Some weeks they would move a ticket between statuses and that was all they did, no comments, no commits, no PRs, no reviews, no testing, nothing. Some weeks there was literally 0 activity by them on any of the tools we used and they were always distracted/distant in meetings, hardly contributing at all. That wasn't the only reason I left that company but it was one of them.

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