Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 102 posts

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#41

Post by vsskanth »

usrn wrote: post #35
vsskanth wrote: post #8

H1B visas are a lottery with Many don't realize how bad its gotten lately on the immigration front. Last year, USCIS wasted 160K green cards, this year they are on track to waste 200K green cards, simply because they are too slow to process paperwork. Companies are probably tired of all this uncertainty and legal overhead so they now offer relocation to their offices outside US if you have visa problems and to have e…

What's the difference between outsourcing and immigration? It's still taking jobs away from the native population.

Its a very common misconception that immigration takes away jobs from the native population. Also known as "Lump of Labor Fallacy".

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#42

Post by jollybean »

zcw100 wrote: post #7

A better headline would have been, “Tech industry uses scare tactics to try and force people back into the office”. Been there, done that. If it could have been outsourced it would have already been outsourced. Do you really think they were sitting around saying,”I know they cost more but I’m too busy playing golf to bother” and they’re only getting around to it now?

"If it could have been outsourced it would have already been outsourced."

You're in for a rude awakening.

It wasn't outsourced before because:

1) standard was in-office and

2) no mass movement to validate it

3) 'outsourced overseas' often meant 'poor country'.

We are only expanding overseas right now because the quality is good and the price is much better. At least for what we are doing.

The Valley is not going away, neither are high salaries, though I do wonder what it means for 'home talent at the high range'.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#43

Post by Sytten »

There was a poll on LinkedIn for tech salaries in Quebec (same timezone as New York, most people speak English well enough, good universities) and the result was that 50% make less than 100k (75k USD). Only 20% make more than 125k (96k USD). Plus the government will subsidize the salaries anywhere from 25% to 60% using tax credits (even more in video games). So it does make sense to hire here for a US based company without sacrifing quality like we all had the experience with cheap outsourced.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#44

Post by newaccount2021 »

Most tech work isn't that hard

Other people around the world have been getting CS degrees too. Americans think everyone in Africa is starving...everyone in Mexico is in a drug cartel...and yet, I know folks who are extremely happy with the tech talent in both regions.

These other people tend to work for less than US tech workers

So, why is anyone surprised?

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#45

Post by ActionHank »

commandlinefan wrote: post #31
zcw100 wrote: post #7

A better headline would have been, “Tech industry uses scare tactics to try and force people back into the office”. Been there, done that. If it could have been outsourced it would have already been outsourced. Do you really think they were sitting around saying,”I know they cost more but I’m too busy playing golf to bother” and they’re only getting around to it now?

> If it could have been outsourced it would have already been outsourced It already has been outsourced and then re-insourced as soon as the quality was evident.

A common trend I've seen for roles recruiters have contacted me on was for startups that outsourced huge chunks of development and are looking for senior \ staff developer to ensure the quality stays above board.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#46

Post by TAMSFT051022 »

thenerdhead wrote: post #23

They’ve been saying this for over two decades now. Nothing has changed. We know what the cost of cheaper labor means in software. We also know that people are generally happier working from home if they are tech workers. The companies that embrace remote first or even hybrid scenarios will be the winner in the long run. Happier employees = better outcomes. If my job could be outsourced, it would’ve been ten years ago…

> If my job could be outsourced, it would’ve been ten years ago when I first joined the workforce as a remote employee

The difference this time is that we are heading for a recession. Company leadership doesn't want to take the risk of outsourcing while times are good and profits are doubling each year. But when the stock price is in freefall and they are under pressure to cut costs, then the risk/reward of outsourcing looks more attractive.

We haven't had a recession since '08, and the landscape is very different now. Remote work tech was in its infancy back then - Zoom, Slack, Google Drive weren't even created yet. Plus India and China (and others) have developed further and starting pumping out 100s of thousands of CS grads each year that didn't exist in '08.

I think we're about to see a big wave of outsourcing over the next few years. And if companies are smart about it (e.g. do it slowly to allow knowledge transfer and compete for top talent, not bottom of the barrel) then it will be successful.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#48

Post by alaricus »

dnndev wrote: post #27

It’s more about trust than finances. Face to face and remote work within the companies legal boundaries is the safer choice. Remote work with no legal leverage is scary when you think about handing over company assets. But then again, many large companies have managers looking to climb the ladder so they outsource at all costs to make the budget look better- it’s a risky gamble and sometimes it just works. Most times…

Nothing beats "it's cheaper". What happened to blue collar jobs in the US is coming for white collar jobs. Even if you don't do it, your competitor will and drive you out of business.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#49

Post by ActionHank »

Sytten wrote: post #43

There was a poll on LinkedIn for tech salaries in Quebec (same timezone as New York, most people speak English well enough, good universities) and the result was that 50% make less than 100k (75k USD). Only 20% make more than 125k (96k USD). Plus the government will subsidize the salaries anywhere from 25% to 60% using tax credits (even more in video games). So it does make sense to hire here for a US based company w…

Until companies start competing for talent in Quebec.

Re: Tech Industry Warns That More Remote-Work Jobs Are Headed Out of U.S.

#50

Post by lucumo »

joshstrange wrote: post #22
zcw100 wrote: post #7

A better headline would have been, “Tech industry uses scare tactics to try and force people back into the office”. Been there, done that. If it could have been outsourced it would have already been outsourced. Do you really think they were sitting around saying,”I know they cost more but I’m too busy playing golf to bother” and they’re only getting around to it now?

Agreed, wake me up when cheap outsourced developers actually works out. I've yet to see it. I have nothing against foreign developers but most of the outsourcing shops I've had the displeasure of working with are 0.2-0.5X developers at "only" 0.6+X of the cost. I know there are developers in other countries that can run circles around me but they aren't working for pennies. Also this mindset completely disregards thi…

> Agreed, wake me up when cheap outsourced developers actually works out.

This actually happens quite a lot in my West-European country. Companies that aren't too picky about language knowledge can get cheap(er) Eastern European developers to do a lot of work. It works out well for the company. I'm one of the last expensive local developers, so I work with them quite often.

These developers are well-educated and very capable. They are in the same or an adjacent timezone, so there's no issue there. They have little to no knowledge of my local language, but that's not a big issue for us because we do most of our work in English anyway. There is no daily/weekly face to face interaction of course, but with WFH that doesn't happen with local developers either. There are just no insurmountable problems with nearshoring anymore. And since you can easily save 30-50% on a developer's salary by doing so...

Post reply on HN