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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#461

Post by wolverine876 »

simulate-me wrote: post #444
wolverine876 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> NYC high earners are going to be knocking on the door of 60% combined rates (city, state, federal). tax avoidance and/or relocation services are going to be booming if so. It turns out that people don't often move over taxes, despite the claims of the anti-tax crowd, or NY and CA would have been emptied out long ago. Taxes are investment; we need to start calling them 'low-investment' and 'high-investment' states (…

This is anecdotal, but I know multiple people who have moved to Washington and Texas from NY and CA specifically to save on taxes from large stock grants at tech companies. I don’t think this is a unique experience in the tech industry. At a large public company I worked for, an entire team ended up moving.

I don't know those people and of course can't judge anyone else but me. Generally, the trendy focus on taxes is absurdity. They are making all that money, and are uprooting their lives and family, not to mention the other benefits of living in world cultural and technology capital (which isn't coincidental to the taxes and resulting community investment), to save on taxes? I hope they see that some things are more important in life.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#462

Post by codefreeordie »

marricks wrote: post #289
codefreeordie wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have made no statements about how things should be. I have lots of opinions about how things should be, which I don't share on HN. I was making statements about how things actually are , since no discussion about how to make the world we want is likely to be meaningful or useful if there is not a shared view of what is first.

And what you focus on brings about thoughts of a zero sum game which I called out. You can safely assume I don’t agree with what you find most pertinent. I think a country which lets some get rich off of other’s cancer is an abhorrent, indefensible, system.

You are assuming that I believe many things which I do not.

You should just assume I'm a misanthrope who enjoys watching people suffer. I mean, it's not true, but lots of idiots assume it.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#463

Post by refurb »

jmckib wrote: post #396
chrisseaton wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outside of yearly physicals Yearly physical == check up. Same thing. Going to the doctor once a year for a general check that you aren't developing any issues that you weren't aware of yet and to monitor your health. I don't have either. I haven't seen a doctor for about five years I think, under the NHS system. If I phoned my NHS GP and said 'it's been a year I'd like you to generally check my physical health' the…

Looks like the official NHS policy is that you get a checkup every five years if aged 40 to 74. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/nhs-health-check/nhs-health-ch... I'm not a doctor but that doesn't seem often enough for an older person. I'm an American in my 30's and I just had a checkup, and my doctor told me to come back every two years. Of course the American system is pretty awful in its own ways, especially for thos…

Preventative care is $0 as a part of the ACA and reputable physicians are included.

Similar to the UK, my in laws in Canada can’t get annual physicians scheduled either - there needs to be something wrong before a doctor will take an appointment.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#464

Post by simulate-me »

wolverine876 wrote: post #461
simulate-me wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but I know multiple people who have moved to Washington and Texas from NY and CA specifically to save on taxes from large stock grants at tech companies. I don’t think this is a unique experience in the tech industry. At a large public company I worked for, an entire team ended up moving.

I don't know those people and of course can't judge anyone else but me. Generally, the trendy focus on taxes is absurdity. They are making all that money, and are uprooting their lives and family, not to mention the other benefits of living in world cultural and technology capital (which isn't coincidental to the taxes and resulting community investment), to save on taxes? I hope they see that some things are more im…

Seattle and Austin are totally comparable, even preferable, to NYC and SF in many ways. So yes, all else equal, why not save an extra 10% of your income?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#465

Post by throwaway743 »

et2o wrote: post #409
throwaway743 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on NY State insurance rn while unemployed and it fucking owns. All the doctor's appts and procedures I've had the last year or so have been amazing, mostly through Langone, and the doctor's have been super thorough and attentive. It's the highest number of (much needed) appts Ive had in the last 10 years combined and at 0 copay. Yes, taxes, but idgaf seeing as the private employer based insurance I had took a big…

Nice. Yeah maybe this will be a win. I’m overall more for it than against it. Just think there are some downsides. Glad to hear you have had a good time on the NY State insurance. Is it Medicaid? Langone actually has the best (most private) payor mix of any of the hospitals in NYC, I believe primarily from geographic reasons. Did you get to compare to Bellevue at all? Curious on your perspective there. Hope you’re do…

Thanks man. Doing alright and hope the same for you.

It is medicaid and Langone's network is actually spread throughout the city, even at Bellevue! Actually got an appt there coming up and the Dr I'm seeing there has been the best. Top notch

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#466

Post by refurb »

colinmhayes wrote: post #406
mattmcknight wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not though. We have have ACA plans you get independent of employment and Medicaid for the unemployed.

Costs $20k for a family.

Just interestingly - the average per capita cost of Canada’s system is $4,000.

Of course in the US, there are costs beyond just insurance, but if you had to pay for coverage out of pocket it would be $16,000/yr for a family of 4.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#467

Post by tablespoon »

goatcode wrote: post #46

Coming from a country that has this, there should be caution: it gets more affordable, but you get what you pay for. In my country of origin, you get a partially-paid-for ride to the emergency room, where you pay for things like casts, non-ward rooms, dental care out of pocket. There is no prescription coverage. There is no optometry coverage. I would wait significant chunks of a year for procedures and diagnostics.…

> Coming from a country that has this, there should be caution: it gets more affordable, but you get what you pay for. In my country of origin, you get a partially-paid-for ride to the emergency room, where you pay for things like casts, non-ward rooms, dental care out of pocket.

New York State will not necessarily implement the same program your home country has.

> Since moving to the US, it is more expensive (than next to nothing), but I actually get good care. Several conditions that were ignored or misdiagnosed for me are now cured. My life might be significantly shorter had I not come here.

It's not really news that the (relatively) rich can get better things by paying more. The well-known consequence of the US system is that many people get no care, because they don't have the money to afford it. That includes people with health insurance, which often doesn't pay for anything at all until you've paid thousands out-of-pocket to hit your deductible.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#468

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

nradov wrote: post #388
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are offensively low for multi-million dollar buildings in NYC. Cut some slack for owner occupiers who had the assessed value skyrocket on them. Tax everybody else fairly.

"Fair" is highly subjective and no one can agree on what that means. Most of us think the fair option is to raise other people's taxes.

"most of us" don't understand the basic concept of marginal tax rates, and "most of us" don't understand the idea of marginal utility. "most of us" have in some form or another been doused in a firehose of "the only good tax rate is a lower tax rate" propaganda generated over (at least) the last 40 years.

For a long time, the USA (like many other post-industrial revolution countries) has accepted that "fair" means using progressive taxation to try to create roughly equal impact given the marginal utility of higher levels of income. It's not incredibly scientific, but it isn't really incredibly subjective either.

Conservatives and their cousins at some level more or less reject the concept that there is any fair level of taxation at all, and if there is, they lean toward equal numerical taxes for every dollar earned (or taxed), thus rejecting marginal utility theory entirely.

There are at least a couple of high-net-worth-admission lobbying groups that have asked Congress to raise rates on people like themselves (which inevitably will impact other people like themselves). And speaking for myself, I believe that I should pay more in taxes.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#469

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

shrimpx wrote: post #452
aserdf wrote: post #30

it will be interesting to watch NY (and/or CA) put something like this in place and observe from afar. i strongly feel that states should be much more aggressive running policy experiments if their constituents desire them, and at the national level we all get some benefit of seeing how things turn out in real time. all that said, assuming there is some tangible tax increase, NYC high earners are going to be knocking…

I think if states become more heterogenous (and SCOTUS seems to be on that wavelength) the idea is "if you don't like the new laws, relocate". Which sounds great; more diversity of laws, more states that are likely to fit my values more closely. But this impacts poor people disproportionately. If you're poor it'll be hard or impossible to relocate.

It also impacts people who consider themselves something other than "rootless cosmopolitans".

I do happen to proudly put myself in the rootless cosmopolitan category, but I've had some interesting interactions (even here on HN) with people for whom community, place, family ties, family history etc. are much more important than they are to someone like me. "Relocate" is a particularly jarring edict for such folk.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#470

Post by nradov »

timtom39 wrote: post #148
joshstrange wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Every population graph I can find show a small decline over the last few years but it's still above 2000 and they've had population dips before (1970-1980) that then recovered. This comment reads like my in-laws who always talk about how "people can't get out of CA fast enough", um the population numbers say otherwise.

CA is losing population: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-countie... It isn't crazy fast but it is happening. We will see if the trend holds...

Our public school district in the south Bay Area had been steadily losing enrollment. I talked to one of the administrators and she said that based on student records transfer requests, the most common destination outside of California was Texas.
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