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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#321

Post by throw0101a »

endisneigh wrote: post #18
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

It’s still a tax hike, regardless of your rationalizing

> It’s still a tax hike, regardless of your rationalizing

You're already paying for health care coverage via monthly/annual premiums and via reduced salaries where your employer's portion is part of the 'total compensation' you get (but doesn't show up in your pay check).

Even if the amount at the end stays exactly the same it may be an improvement because (a) there are no "in network" worries about going to the "wrong" hospital or getting the "wrong" doctor", and (b) it is universal coverage so (i) you may not have to worry about losing your job and losing coverage as well as (ii) you can change jobs and have the same (universal) coverage.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#322

Post by charrondev »

jrodthree24 wrote: post #228
beebmam wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 60% marginal rates. Last year I paid 17% of my total income in taxes.

Probably depends what you mean by high income. I think someone making 100k will not pay that much and that is considered high in a lot of places. But I am not sure that is considered high in NYC. High is probably more like 150k - 200k+ and that still wont be anywhere near 60%. I do get to ~40% when you add up federal, state and city. I don't think anyone is really looking at an actual 60%. Maybe 50% if you're making…

I’m in Quebec so I paid 29% on everything over 66k to federal and my provincial rates were 20% (over 50k), 26% (over 100k), and 29% (over 150k).

We also have a 15% sales tax. I paid more than a 50% effective rate last year. This is the cost of our social safety net. It feels like too much too me and I’ll be relocating next year.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#323

Post by nybble41 »

Krasnol wrote: post #227
notch656a wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your health bill and he helps you because...why wouldn't he? Asking is fine. Telling them they must is not. If the mechanism for payment from the youth to the elderly is voluntary I have no problem with it.

It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. I don't get why you have a problem with that. It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. The attitude you display here has become a bad joke when people talk about the US health system. You must be aware of that. What do…

> It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay.

Voluntary would be staying where you are and still not being forced to pay. When a mugger presents their victim with a choice like "your money or your life" they're not paying voluntarily just because there was another option. You don't have the right to evict people from their homes any more than you have the right to take their money.

> It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern.

The attempt to normalize theft is the only "anti-social behaviour pattern" here.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#324

Post by bingohbangoh »

beebmam wrote: post #96
aserdf wrote: post #30

it will be interesting to watch NY (and/or CA) put something like this in place and observe from afar. i strongly feel that states should be much more aggressive running policy experiments if their constituents desire them, and at the national level we all get some benefit of seeing how things turn out in real time. all that said, assuming there is some tangible tax increase, NYC high earners are going to be knocking…

That's 60% marginal rates. Last year I paid 17% of my total income in taxes.

I paid 38% of my total income in taxes in New York City.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#325

Post by erosenbe0 »

et2o wrote: post #285

I’m an MD who trained in NYC. I have also had emergency surgery in the NHS at one of their most prestigious hospitals in London and so I feel like I’ve seen the system a little bit from the inside. It was far cheaper for me than it would have been as a Brit in the USA, but the standard of care was lower. They didn’t have some technical and staffing resources late in the afternoon that would be a baseline in any of th…

This is a good take. Single payer might work in the USA using HMO plans funded by taxes, income/asset linked tiers of coinsurance, tax increases, major efficiency corrections, reduced barriers to entry, and mix of deregulation and regulation to increase competition.

Also, the US healthcare system is the excellent and one of the world's best if :

A) you have good insurance or medicaid/medicare in the right place.

B) you have transport to potentially drive some distance to deal with occasional wait times or to find in-network providers

C) you can navigate the sometimes byzantine billing nightmares that can occur where your coverage is denied on medically necessary or contractually covered care; or your enrollment in a subsidized program is denied, late; or you are indigent, incapacitated or elderly need an advocate to assure you get enrolled in correct coverage.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#326

Post by mypalmike »

rootusrootus wrote: post #23
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

That assumes you get the cost saving. If my company stopped paying for my insurance benefit and instead gave that money to me directly, and then I bought the cheapest plan I could find on the insurance exchange ... I'd be paying more, not less. By a fair amount.

Numbers, please. This kind of claim is just mythology unless you have numbers to back it up.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#327

Post by bawolff »

aserdf wrote: post #30

it will be interesting to watch NY (and/or CA) put something like this in place and observe from afar. i strongly feel that states should be much more aggressive running policy experiments if their constituents desire them, and at the national level we all get some benefit of seeing how things turn out in real time. all that said, assuming there is some tangible tax increase, NYC high earners are going to be knocking…

This is how it worked in canada.

Saskatchewan decided they wanted single payer health care so they did it. About a decade later the federal gov made it national.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#328

Post by et2o »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #325
et2o wrote: post #285

I’m an MD who trained in NYC. I have also had emergency surgery in the NHS at one of their most prestigious hospitals in London and so I feel like I’ve seen the system a little bit from the inside. It was far cheaper for me than it would have been as a Brit in the USA, but the standard of care was lower. They didn’t have some technical and staffing resources late in the afternoon that would be a baseline in any of th…

This is a good take. Single payer might work in the USA using HMO plans funded by taxes, income/asset linked tiers of coinsurance, tax increases, major efficiency corrections, reduced barriers to entry, and mix of deregulation and regulation to increase competition. Also, the US healthcare system is the excellent and one of the world's best if : A) you have good insurance or medicaid/medicare in the right place. B) y…

Great points. Yes those are the major barriers. If you have all those, things can go well. Obviously heaps of people in the USA do not.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#329

Post by systemvoltage »

throw0101a wrote: post #295
systemvoltage wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland has private insurance just like the US and people I know that live in Zurich love it.

> Switzerland has private insurance just like the US and people I know that live in Zurich love it. Profits are regulated (sometimes down to zero) in CH. Profits are unregulated in the US.

Only for the "soziale krankenversicherung" or basic plan.

US has a massive free healthcare system called "Medicaid" which is similar to the basic plan for low income individuals and families, the scale of which is unknown to many:

> Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States, providing free health insurance to 74 million low-income and disabled people (23% of Americans) as of 2017, as well as paying for half of all U.S. births in 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

In addition, each state has other provisions. For example, California's Medical system is used by a third of California's population:

> Benefits include ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder treatment, dental (Denti-Cal), vision, and long term care and supports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medi-Cal

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