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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

201–210 of 569 posts

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#201
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NY has low property taxes compared to most no-income-tax states

Where is that? My parents lived in North County and paid 13k+ a year on a $350k house. Their current place in Tampa is about 400k and the taxes are less than half of what they were in NY. Maybe Florida is a special case?

WA is also lower than NY. I have a few properties, and I would say property tax is 0.75% to 1% of market value, max.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#202
post #30

it will be interesting to watch NY (and/or CA) put something like this in place and observe from afar. i strongly feel that states should be much more aggressive running policy experiments if their constituents desire them, and at the national level we all get some benefit of seeing how things turn out in real time. all that said, assuming there is some tangible tax increase, NYC high earners are going to be knocking…

4 states would be about 1/3 of all of USA's population too...

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think funding the elderly is a lofty goal, but I don't see a good intellectual argument for FORCING our children to pay for our healthcare. You shouldn't view your child (nor your neighbor's child) as your own personal piggy-bank to extract from when you get ill. IMO our goal should be to hand down resources from parent to child, not the opposite direction. If I made this story a bit more personal and wrote ("I am…

What alternative do you propose? Suicide booths?

Literally any other option than telling our children they must involuntarily pay, like they're our own personal piggy bank. Saving, asking nicely, charity, debt/mortgage the house, and other forms of voluntary transactions sound acceptable. If you truly have no other options then you can make the moral judgement whether you want to involuntarily take from our children because you think the investment on yourself is worth more than the investment on the youth.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#204

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

Nooo! Public option is not a half measure, it's a ~zero measure. Single payer >>> public option. Public option is really easy to kill, just kneecap it any of a hundred ways, call it a failure, and then sell killing it as a tax break. It has the staying power of a cobweb on a car wheel. Failure is inevitable and it won't just be dead, it'll be held up for decades as proof that our government is uniquely incapable of d…

How/why is failure inevitable?

>Contrast to single payer, which is hard to kill because people are yes paying a tax but also seeing a benefit and seeing a benefit that they didn't have before

Isn't that true for a public option as well?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Every population graph I can find show a small decline over the last few years but it's still above 2000 and they've had population dips before (1970-1980) that then recovered. This comment reads like my in-laws who always talk about how "people can't get out of CA fast enough", um the population numbers say otherwise.

CA is losing population: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-countie... It isn't crazy fast but it is happening. We will see if the trend holds...

How much of this do you think comes from the Bay Area and Los Angeles housing costs and the ability to remote work in the last couple of years (which seems to be coming to an end... possibly) and how much do you think is because of policy and city deterioration which has been publicized?

I can't speak for CA but I see parallels in Seattle, though there's only movement to other cities within other WA cities (mainly the east side).

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent is not tax, what an absurd comment.

The point is, the apartment owner pays property tax and collect rent from tenants to pay for that. If property taxes go up, property owners raise rents to compensate. So the tenants are paying the property tax, albeit indirectly.

Landlords are also competing with each other and tenants have limits based on what they can actually afford to pay. At some point they can be forced to move out of the city to a lower cost of living location, dropping demand. In fact it's entirely possible for a significant increase in tax rates to make rental units a poor investment, causing housing prices to plummet and rents to drop.

Your mistake is assuming that people who bought up housing stock are guaranteed future profit on their speculative investment.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#207
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount paid per capita and whether you would pay more taxes are not exclusive things. I’m not sure why people keep bringing up Europe - the USA is not Europe. For one doctors are paid more in the USA compared to Europe, medicine is more expensive here, more of the R and D originates here, etc

Maybe good question to ask is what makes it more expensive? Is it bloated administration and insurance system? Or is there some fundamental other difference?

One reason is it is expensive to fund the research and testing and so the companies need to recoup that cost. They cannot in Europe and Canada due to price controls which means people in the US offset the cost. The US is basically subsidizing other Western countries.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#208

50% of health resources are used in the final 5 years of life. The young should not pay for the healthcare of the elderly. Society should be apportioned into different age categories, and funded separately, with a 'base' tier for all citizens and legal residents, and a higher tier for those with private or employer insurance.

> The young should not pay for the healthcare of the elderly. The same way responsible drivers should not pay for reckless ones? Or responsible homeowners shouldn't pay for reckless ones? The whole idea of insurance is to distribute the costs so that no one has to bear long tail costs alone...

Long tail costs are things like freak car accidents, hail, etc. Reckless drivers should and are charged more because their costs are higher as a result of their own choices. Obese smokers should be charged more than healthy people but they're not because ACA says you can't discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. That means healthy people end up subsidizing lung cancer treatment, heart disease treatment, insulin, etc. for fat people.

edit: correction, ACA permits charging tobacco users extra. But not, for example, weed users.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#209

50% of health resources are used in the final 5 years of life. The young should not pay for the healthcare of the elderly. Society should be apportioned into different age categories, and funded separately, with a 'base' tier for all citizens and legal residents, and a higher tier for those with private or employer insurance.

So what do we do with the sick and poor elderly folks? It provides a benefit for the younger as well in that junior doesn't have to worry about grandma dying of an untreated illness

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#210
If only we can get the other 48 states to have a single payer health plan initiative or adopt a nationalized single payer health care system.

Health care should not be limited to just living in CA or NY or the rich.

side note: this site for tracking bills at the state level is kind of nice. Wish other states had this. This is what I have to deal with in TX

https://capitol.texas.gov/MnuLegislation.aspx

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