I'm already seeing that it leads to outsourcing to western European countries. I know basically two marketable tech stacks and for one of them that's primarily popular in Europe, I can't get more than 70k gbp (without us benefits), which is apparently a decent wage in London but definitely not in California cities. And for the other tech stacks I've seen ~20% drop in rates.
Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
31–40 of 117 posts
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#32I worked for a company that embraced remote, distributed work long before COVID. WFH doesn’t automatically lead to outsourcing, but it does move it a lot closer. Once the company dynamic has shifted to all communications and interactions being online, it’s very easy to add someone from a different country as long as the time zones aren’t too far apart and the logistics of employing and paying them aren’t too onerous…
I’ve found it’s easier to outsource maintenance and harder to outsource creation of software. Cultural issues coupled with time zone changes are difficult to overcome.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#33I don’t see how is the current wfh situation any different from before. Before: work at the office. You were competing with people who lived in your city. You were limited to work at companies in your city. Now: wfh. You compete with people who live in your country. Depending on the company, you may compete with people who live in countries +- N hours of difference. But you are not limited to work for companies in yo…
It's still asymmetric if you live in an expensive place compared to other places that have workers.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#34Everything (and more) that's possible to outsource or offshore has been outsourced or offshored in the last 20 years. C'suite folks and finance have been utterly unrestrained by anything apart from impossibility.
Fear not.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#35I worked for a company that embraced remote, distributed work long before COVID. WFH doesn’t automatically lead to outsourcing, but it does move it a lot closer. Once the company dynamic has shifted to all communications and interactions being online, it’s very easy to add someone from a different country as long as the time zones aren’t too far apart and the logistics of employing and paying them aren’t too onerous…
I think you are overly discounting time zone. Someone working remotely, but within 3 time zones, is much easier to collaborate with than someone 9-12 timezones away.
About half the US lives in the eastern time zone - so if the product manager wants to talk to an Indian programmer at 430PM India time, he has to start the meeting at 730AM Eastern time. This is the most convenient time to have the meeting usually. Another 28% of the US is in the central time zone, but that just shifts this meeting to 830AM for the product manager. The working hours don't overlap. On top of various other problems.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#36I worked for a company that embraced remote, distributed work long before COVID. WFH doesn’t automatically lead to outsourcing, but it does move it a lot closer. Once the company dynamic has shifted to all communications and interactions being online, it’s very easy to add someone from a different country as long as the time zones aren’t too far apart and the logistics of employing and paying them aren’t too onerous…
This is exactly my experience and I work at a very known tech company. As a manager I was told I can hire more people outside the US and was recommended to only hire in the US if I find someone who we really don't want to pass on. In other words, top talent would be OK, everyone else would have problems.
I actually don't call it outsourcing as people think about outsourcing as a way to get cheap labor in places like India or Eastern Europe. What I see happening is that companies are not looking for cheap labor. They are looking for talent and are not lowering the bar. They just prefer locations where they can afford that talent.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#37I worked for a company that embraced remote, distributed work long before COVID. WFH doesn’t automatically lead to outsourcing, but it does move it a lot closer. Once the company dynamic has shifted to all communications and interactions being online, it’s very easy to add someone from a different country as long as the time zones aren’t too far apart and the logistics of employing and paying them aren’t too onerous…
I’ve found it’s easier to outsource maintenance and harder to outsource creation of software. Cultural issues coupled with time zone changes are difficult to overcome.
You can work in the same time zone :
- Mexico, South America are same time zones as US
- as the other poster mentioned 75% US dev salary puts you in 1% in Eastern Europe, you will have no problem finding people with flexible work schedule adjusted to your TZ
Cultural issues are a thing in terms of understanding the US market - but that's up to your PMs/POs to handle. Cultural differences in terms of work habits, etc. go away with good compensation (if you're willing to pay for top people).
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#38There's a shortage of programmers. It's more likely they hire someone else in addition to you, rather than instead of you.
It's easy to find programmers, it's way harder to find system engineers, dev ops or similar.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#39I don't see why not. I worked from Latin America for a couple months and met a lot of fellow tech employees there (Google, FB, etc). I also met a lot of local English-speaking SWEs who could have done our jobs with no issue. The timezone difference is miniscule or nil (esp for East Coast based companies), and they would be estatic to make $60k as opposed to our 250k+.
Re: Ask HN: WFH – will I be outsourced?
#40I worked for a company that embraced remote, distributed work long before COVID. WFH doesn’t automatically lead to outsourcing, but it does move it a lot closer. Once the company dynamic has shifted to all communications and interactions being online, it’s very easy to add someone from a different country as long as the time zones aren’t too far apart and the logistics of employing and paying them aren’t too onerous…
I think you are overly discounting time zone. Someone working remotely, but within 3 time zones, is much easier to collaborate with than someone 9-12 timezones away.
From direct experience - It’s not that hard to stand up entirely separate teams and eventually entire departments in foreign countries. Communication then mostly happens by e-mail or during scheduled calls during narrow overlapping hours.
You’re right that it’s far, far harder to have teams built from members in opposite time zones. However, the people pushing for fully asynchronous work environments are building company dynamics that lend themselves to being timezone agnostic, so it can be done if you want it badly enough.