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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#331

Post by Clubber »

annexrichmond wrote: post #75
tomohawk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having seen how several family members fared in union jobs (several different unions), I swore I'd never belong to a union or work any job that required me to be part of one. They all had such an adversarial relationship with work. It's always us against them mentality. They could never see anyone in management as a human. I can't imagine living like that. As far as I can tell, the unions didn't ever solve any of the…

I have the same feeling having seen family members in unions. My mother is a really hard worker, and plays by the rules, and that means nothing in her union while her colleagues abuse sick policies, push more work into her and so on. All what matters there is tenure, not the quality of employee you are. My takeaway is that she would be far more successful in a non unionized workplace because hers was definitely more…

>All what matters there is tenure, not the quality of employee you are.

From what I understand is this is done because it's the fairest way. Unions, like anything, can be corrupted. It would be funny if the union rep's nephew always got promotions over other people. This is an attempt to prevent that. In other words, it's the least-worst way of doing it.

>My takeaway is that she would be far more successful in a non unionized workplace because hers was definitely more beneficial for slackers.

Possibly. In my experience, it's usually in the form of a $5 Starbucks gift card every year. It really depends on the position and the company. I've seen a lot of hard ass workers get treated like shit.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#332

Post by da39a3ee »

I understand that some managers and PMs whose jobs meeting people the whole time might think that office work is superior. But I've honestly been surprised that they lack the intelligence to see that many good software engineers work better alone in quiet environments.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#333

Post by astrange »

trhway wrote: post #34

>a little over four years Full vest. Time to go. I've had WFH people around for more than 20 years at all the places I worked over that time. Mostly they were doing their job, yet there were always limits felt to what they can do and how much they can do.

A director shouldn't be worrying about his hiring grant vesting. I get the impression they're well-paid at that level until they're suddenly out the door.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#334

Post by tonguez »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #97
hooande wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here's to you, good luck in your journey. make it worth it "If you're going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don't even start. This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives and maybe even your mind. It could mean not eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It could mean jail. It could mean derision. It could mean mockery--isolation. Isolation is the gift. All the others are a t…

"Elegant, inspiring, soaring prose often makes for incredibly shitty real-world advice." - hn_throwaway_99

nobody cares about your opinion because no one knows who you are

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#335

Post by ineedasername »

wanderingmind wrote: post #98
ineedasername wrote: post #70

I'm trying to hire for a position right now and it has dragged on for months for two reasons: 1) WFH is now limited to 1 day per week, and a 3 month probationary period where new hires don't even get that. 2) Salary. It's still a job seeker's market and my workplace is not keeping pace. It's spec'ed for 3 years of experience but salary is about the median for a new graduate w/o professional experience. I'm happy to t…

What you need is a new job where they don't treat your skill as a cost center

Fortunately my boss doesn't treat it as a cost center, she knows her division is the revenue provider in both acquiring & preventing churn.

She's fighting that battle now to make the chief boss understand that too, but it's a slog.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#336

Post by kortilla »

hiddencost wrote: post #92
prirun wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. You also give away your power as an individual to those running the union.

I'll refrain from ruder responses and point to the weekend as a lovely innovation powered by unions. How did you get so intensely in thrall of the people holding your collar?

> point to the weekend as a lovely innovation powered by unions.

No, this is powered by the law. If it wasn’t the evaporation of unions that we’ve seen over the last 20 years would have taken weekends with them.

A thing unions were supportive of in the past is not evidence of the value of unions now.

It’s like pointing out the importance of American troops in France because world war 2.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#337

Post by andreareina »

ethbr0 wrote: post #228
oceanghost wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you ever notice the guys pushing the group synergy, generally have big offices?

Average office size : average cube size An underrated ratio for measuring corporate inequality.

Bold of you to assume they even have cubes

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#338

Post by ineedasername »

ShamelessC wrote: post #326
sodapopcan wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get paid very well for 36 hour weeks (half-day Fridays) in a low stress atmosphere with no expectation of over time. All I'm saying is that there is no harm looking around as there are plenty of jobs like that out there.

I work 20 hours a week now, fully remote, making (a little bit) more than I used to doing 40. Granted, it's a machine learning gig and I took the pandemic to brush up on these skills, but it's definitely achievable in this market to have a good work/life balance.

Contract work?

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#339

Post by sanguy »

softwaredoug wrote: post #226

Whether you favor in office or remote, you have to admit our cost structures have fundamentally reoriented the last 2 years. Think of the commuting costs, living near/far from the office, the different types of day care options, etc etc that have shifted in the last two years. Imagine being told you’re going to get a 10% cut in pay due to the need to go in the office? That’s what RTO probably feels like to peoples po…

Good point and 10% is low. Let’s say you are in Bay Area and 1 hour commute each way - so 2 hours a day.

Even if you put in 10 hours at the office it’s still 20% lost time in the commute. 20% is a lot of your “working time” to be non-productive. And that is not quality time - that is stressful time that leads to burn out over time.

A RTO concept should factor this in. RTO for many people means working more and the employer getting less of your brains best output. It is a loss/loss. Why would either side of the equation wants this?

My team is fully WFH - 700 people globally - and the only time anyone is required to come into the office is when a job task can not be done remotely.

We’ve also reduced our office footprint 70% in the process; with the savings going to a WFH monthly stipend. We also arrange two social events a month to keep the in person connections alive; with numerous smaller groups having TGIF’s or other sorts of activity clubs.

Regus membership has given all the WFH folks a place to grab an office if they need to get out of the house for whatever reason.

To get over the “are my employees slacking off?” We’ve put in a simple peer review system that is working well:

1) If you are assembling a team for a very challenging and demanding project who are your top 5 choices?

2) If you could give out a spot bonus who would you give it to and why?

3) Is there anyone you feel should be reduced from your team and why (optional)?

This was bumpy as hell to get rolling but now working well. And yes, Q2 does drive quarterly spot bonuses based on responses.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#340

Post by ddingus »

analog31 wrote: post #116
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone (or, at least not many people) is arguing against working in the office if you have a specific need to be there . What people have an issue with is requiring a return to the office for no other reason than "group synergy".

Ironically, "group synergy" was given as the reason for cramming people into the open plan offices that everybody was glad to get away from.

I left a job over open office plans. I really hate it. And I am one of those tech + social people too. Like having people nearby.

But the distractions are everywhere. It is hard to flow. It is hard to have a phone call with a prospect or customer. Things get moved, borrowed, lost.

But mostly I hate it because everytime I have seen open plan, the people who set it up have big offices with windows looking out at the people they screwed over and seek to ultra micro manage. (And this is exactly what happened at the company I left)

"I saw you doing that, why?"

"How come you wander around several times a day?"

"Your desk is a mess"

And so it goes. Nope. Do not have time for that. Happy to work elsewhere or make less, whatever.

Anyway, they announced, I counter announced, and then was out before the move. They lost a few people, and that company was sold a while back.

Now pretty much everyone doing that work has a new email and works mostly from home! New owners saw no need for a group office scenario and has small teams all over the place. Given the nature of the work, that makes a ton of sense.

Funny how things can work.

Having talked with the old owner after all this went down, the real reasons were to save money and manage people and their relationships. Profound lack of trust.

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