I'll refrain from ruder responses and point to the weekend as a lovely innovation powered by unions. How did you get so intensely in thrall of the people holding your collar?
They have weekends in China and it’s not because of any labor movement. Working conditions and compensation increase because of supply and demand dynamics, which unions are a part of but not necessary for. For another example of countries that do not tolerate independent labor movements where economic growth led to better working conditions see Vietnam.
Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the on…
Their revenues and profits are in a historical low. Remote work is a scam. The company must return to the office, otherwise they'll go bankrupt in months. Tim Cook is so wise to save Apple with this move.
I've found people's views on remote work say more about their personal ethics than universal truth.
People who would (or do) slack off without direct oversight think everyone is that way. They don't understand that the people in these positions are highly motivated, driven people.
Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the on…
The office is where the very expensive labs are. For at least parts of Apple engineering, very expensive equipment and prototypes are under lockdown and too expensive to duplicate for WFH. (at least that's how it was during my several years there.)
>The office is where the very expensive labs are.
I know right. I mean to be able to test his his AI algorithms, instead of just walking into the supercomputer room with a briefcase full of punchcards he would either have to make a long distance trip or else FedEx in his punchcards(and expose Apple to the risk of losing them or having them leak).
Sorry, this is 2022 and we have high speed Internet and networked computers. And we don’t have to physically load punchcard into then supercomputer.
Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…
I think there's a few obvious responses to your comment. First of which is that switching jobs is not as easy as you make it sound, even in the tech industry. There's still a lot of effort that must be put into interviewing and it takes quite a few weeks unless you get lucky. It becomes even more difficult when you need arrangements due to a disability, visa sponsorship, future maternity/paternity leave, etc. Second, it's an expression of frustration. A company can have an excellent outlook, competent leadership, good technical innovation, and great financial health. But a deal-breaking change in arrangements (such as having to return to the office when that's difficult/uncomfortable for the employee) is saddening. It's natural to be intellectually/emotionally invested in your employer after putting effort into them and closely following their growth. Frustration is natural after seeing someone make a shortsighted decision, and most people will want to try and talk that person out of it.
All I know is that the reasons people give that they are leaving and the actual reasons can vary. This might be just as much about the state of Apple’s ML division as anything wfh related.
It’s really hard to believe that Apple management is willing to act against their own interest.
Is it worth considering that the self-reported productivity gains which dominate these comments are not objective and are colored by employees acting in their own interest? That maybe Apple managers know what they’re doing?
They were running Apple to the ground in the 80s and then kicked Steve Jobs out in 1985. Jobs starter Next which was acquired by Apple in 1997, bringing Jobs back home. Hence gp’s comment about Apple’s long history of doing this…
I'm not sure doing it once counts as a tradition or long history, but zinger I guess.
I'll refrain from ruder responses and point to the weekend as a lovely innovation powered by unions. How did you get so intensely in thrall of the people holding your collar?
They have weekends in China and it’s not because of any labor movement. Working conditions and compensation increase because of supply and demand dynamics, which unions are a part of but not necessary for. For another example of countries that do not tolerate independent labor movements where economic growth led to better working conditions see Vietnam.
"Not because of any labor movement" is a strange way to describe a communist government.
Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the on…
Their revenues and profits are in a historical low. Remote work is a scam. The company must return to the office, otherwise they'll go bankrupt in months. Tim Cook is so wise to save Apple with this move.
Remote work allows lazy employees to stay unmonitored.
If you wanted to hear non-BS truth from me. Otherwise, we can all continue to pretend.
Having seen how several family members fared in union jobs (several different unions), I swore I'd never belong to a union or work any job that required me to be part of one. They all had such an adversarial relationship with work. It's always us against them mentality. They could never see anyone in management as a human. I can't imagine living like that. As far as I can tell, the unions didn't ever solve any of the…
is it possible that adversarial relationship might exist even without a union but it would just be hidden? personally, i think i would prefer a co-ownership (coop) scheme than union, since that adversarial relationship is basically dissolved since you are also the owner along with your co-workers... idk just a thought
> is it possible that adversarial relationship might exist even without a union but it would just be hidden?
It wouldn't happen in other countries because the US has a uniquely adversarial union structure, where Europe uses codetermination (ICs with board seats) and sectoral bargaining (don't have to convert one company at a time).